[freedan]

Got slapped down by the Peaks Ultra 50 in Vermont on Saturday. The day started out at 30F and frosty and warmed to 80F in the afternoon. Felt great conditioning wise throughout and was running a very good time but at about mile 18 felt like I sprained my knee. It got very inflamed and painful over next several miles. I hobbled 19 miles to the next aid station at 37 and dropped. I was still making good time on the uphills but the downs were becoming unbearable and with 12,000' of vert there was no lack of downs. Much thanks to the Canadian couple who gave me a handful of Advil at 27 as I was sitting at the high point where the trail crosses the Long Trail on a mountaintop, contemplating the miles of descent back to the valley. I almost went out for the last 13 but enough was enough, I've got other races to do this summer and didn't want to really damage my knee. I did manage to run the entire Contest Trail, Hayes Brook, Bloodroot, and Thousand Acres trails in Green Mtn,. NF south of VT 100 in Pittsfield. It is a very challenging course. I'll be back next year to get this one.

[cesare]

Give it enough rest, Dan. Don't do what I did.
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that sounds like a sure-fire way to get bitch-slapped by devil's club -- dschane

[freedan]

[PV]

Hi congrats to those of you in Colorado. Your local boy beat Kilian in the Transvulcania.

http://desnivel.com/carreras-y-raids/dakota-jones-se-lleva-una-transvulcania-de-cinco-estrellas

[Dr. T. Elemark]

Heal up Dan.
IT Band tweaked last week. Felt good enough to run 3.5mi on Sunday though.
Been training for a Sprint Tri and that has been awesome.
I feel bullet proof.
Except for the knee thing.
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"Roads? Where we're going we don't need roads."- Doc

[Dr. T. Elemark]

BUMP BUMP BUMP

Went for a sweet night run Tuesday evening with the dog.
Headlamp threw some funky shadows and perception was tricky.
One nice spot on a ridge where I could open it up a bit.
Went for a night run with no headlamp on Monday too, but it was at the track and that doesn't really count.
First race on Saturday is a 5K through the nordic trails.
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"Roads? Where we're going we don't need roads."- Doc

[Dr. T. Elemark]

[freeheelwilly]

[freedan]

[climbhoser]

Great job!

Speaking of speed, I've spent a few summers trying to slow down and go longer, and I have. To the point where now I feel my speed is gone.

I can run faster than I do, but it's as if it feels unnatural, like I've untrained by body to run quick, short runs. I've been going out doing 8-15 miles and averaging ~10 minute miles when I push it. I can easily accomplish 10 minute miles, and I can hold that speed for more distance than that (how much longer I don't know).

I tried some short, 3 mile runs where I picked it up, and one day I was successful and brought it to about an 8:30 mile for one of the miles, and then more like 9 for the other two.

It's somewhat discouraging because just a few years ago I was putting in 7 minute miles for 3-5 milers. I don't know where my speed has gone!

A) should I be concerned at all? My goal isn't short runs anyway, but marathon + distances

B) Can I get it back?

I'm never out of breath on my runs, even when I try and push it. If I start breathing heavily it's like something in my brain tells me I'm going too hard and can't sustain, and puts a governer on me. Anyone ever experience this?
_________________
"To me Plastic boots are kind of like a condom on the experience." -light skier-

"He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man." -Dr. Johnson-

[James]

CH, I would say my history is just like yours. My focus for over a decade was long trail runs and races.

Around 5years ago I decided to take a break and race more 5 and 10 k races. I am generally very smart about training but in this case underestimated how fast I could get back to running faster. While at the track doing 200 meter intervals I strained my Achilles. Ever since then I have had Achilles tendonosis and I don't think it will ever go away. So basically running for me now is 3-4 miles at a plus 9 minute pace with minimal pain. Any further or faster and the tendon flairs up. I have tried everything except surgery.

Sorry for the blog and you are a lot younger then me but I would not wish this on anyone and be careful if you try to speed back up.

[cesare]

Intervals. My focus on running long and slow has sapped most of my speed as well. But you can get it back by pushing yourself through interval training. Get up to the pace you want to maintain over 5k and do short intervals at that pace with minimal rest between them. Over a few months a lot of that speed can return.

I had been running intervals one to two days a week for a couple of months and noticed a distinct improvement in my ability to run faster and pain free in the last kilometer of a 9 mile I did the other day. Yesterday on a 7 mile I didn't have it. My heel is still bothering me but not as much and it feels fine the next day. Doing 30+ miles a week now around my new work schedule of 4 tens.

James, I really love 200 meter intervals. But realistically, we need to build up to much longer intervals to improve our ability to maintain speed in middle to long distances. I work on ladders or locomotives as we used to call them. A typical day on the track for me is a mile to warm up, then 10x100m, 5x200m, 3x300m, 2 x400m, 3x300m, 5x200m, 10x100m, and a mile to cool down. I am not up to that full regimen yet. And when I get there, the next step is 12x400 m between the miles to warm up and cool down. The people I see at the local track who are competitive distance runners do intervals up to 1000m.
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that sounds like a sure-fire way to get bitch-slapped by devil's club -- dschane

[climbhoser]

Intervals, got it. I'll give it a go. Can't hurt, can it?

Also, what's interesting is that on a 10-12 mile run at ~10 minute miles I often run negative splits...if even by a few seconds. I have an app that announces my mile splits, so it's been lighting a fire under me to get quicker. When I first started using it I found I was comfortably relaxing into splits anywhere from 10-12 minutes per mile on my longest runs.

Anyway, so it'll shout out the split per mile, and I am pushed into consciousness of my time, and I think "I can do better than that!" so I move a bit quicker. I end up not much faster, maybe a few seconds, and am continuously surprised that my splits don't improve more. But, they do improve throughout my run, all the way to the end.

So, I know I've got tons more in me when I finish my runs, which I'm stoked about, but I seem unable to put in faster splits right now. Intervals tomorrow, then!
_________________
"To me Plastic boots are kind of like a condom on the experience." -light skier-

"He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man." -Dr. Johnson-

[freedan]

You can do intervals while doing a longer run too. Just crank up the pace for a half mile, slow down to recover and repeat. Or do repeats with a short rest or recovery run in between of a short course, say a mile. If racing on roads, track work is helpful but for trail racing I prefer practicing on the terrain and footing that I will encounter in races.

I've found my GPS watch to be helpful too. I'm competitive by nature and I have certain runs that are my time trial runs. Every now and then I go as fast as I can to judge where my speed is at. Knowing how fast you are clicking off miles is useful also to give you a kick in the butt and get moving.

If you have a decent treadmill, the one good purpose for the hamster wheel IMO is for overspeed training. Crank up the speed to a bit too fast for your liking and hang on as long as possible. It trains muscles and neurons to fire at faster pace and thus allows you to run faster.

I find trying to run really fast to be as damaging to my body as running really long. You wouldn't just run 30 miles with no base, same for speed. Don't decide to be fast one day and start running sprints all out - good way to be injured.

[James]

cesare I agree. I would not generally go out and do 200 meter intervals. I always mix them up and focus mostly on 400 meters. The problem was I was a sprinter jumper in HS and college and it was when I was trying to rip the 200 meter intervals like I was 20 again that I got injured.

A bit off topic but have you guys ever hear of the Yasso 800s. The theory and it appear to work is is that if you can do 8 800s in your training your marathon pace in hours will match you 800 pace in minutes. In other wards 8 800 in 3 minutes equals a 3 hour marathon and 8 in 4 minutes equals a 4 hour marathon.