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nils
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 5441
Location: tahoe
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 Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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was it -80 F that day? 
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skiter
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 7087
Location: 5 Miles North of Boston
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | having broken a few alpine boots racing freestyle |
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skibum
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 1862
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| skiter wrote: | | Quote: | | having broken a few alpine boots racing freestyle |
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I busted up a lot less gear than most. I stay pretty centered over the skis which makes for better turn points. Still, riding in the backseat generates a little extra speed, but busts more gear. That feeling that "my boot just got really soft" is kind of the classic feel 
I am not well versed on why tele boots fail. However, 4-buckle alpine boots bust at the toe like that from "Lange Bang". When the lower cuff buckle flexes and catches the upper instep buckle, the toe shears.
From a few of the pics of the bellows maxing out, I could envision the toe buckle Lange Banging the boot shell in front of the bellows and shearing off the toe? The difference in the amount of force generated flexing in the living room vs driving an edge on ice or bumps is probably huge? |
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Eli Renfro
Joined: 27 Sep 2006
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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Remember the First year T2X....?
Recalled due to a cracking problem with the triple injected cuff.... |
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Nurse Ben
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 4227
Location: Riding my unicycle
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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I can't see the pic cuz I'm at work. I'm assuming it's a TX with the new soft bellows. Can you describe what I'd be seeing.
Maybe you could send the pic to my e-mail?
bkadas AT bellsouth DOT net
Thanks! |
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cowdog
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2685
Location: Gravity's grip
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Eli Renfro wrote: | Remember the First year T2X....?
Recalled due to a cracking problem with the triple injected cuff.... |
I don't recall that. I wasn't watching too closely, but I only seem to recall the apparent discovery that the TX bellows were too stiff. I find that interesting because the happiest group of NTN skiers seems to be those on the way stiff evo.
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Hose-man
Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 1152
Location: Star IDAHO
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| carl wrote: | looks like there's a design defect
the bellows |
Okay. THAT ^^^ was funny. |
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Dlira
Joined: 31 Dec 2004
Posts: 1340
Location: Delaware and Vermont
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Holy macaroni! |
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Nurse Ben
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 4227
Location: Riding my unicycle
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Cowdog, thanks for sending me the pic by e-mail.
I'm guessing the boot sole twisted, and the torsion was too much for the toebox, so it cracked. The softer bellows really decrease the rigidity of the forefoot.
Though NTN provides a secure fit on the boot sole, it can't provide significant sole stiffening, so having a super soft bellows may be a problem since the boot shell is rigid, the two component flexes won't match up.
Maybe it's a one off failure, like an anomaly  |
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Dlira
Joined: 31 Dec 2004
Posts: 1340
Location: Delaware and Vermont
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Nurse Ben wrote: | Hey Cowdog, thanks for sending me the pic by e-mail.
I'm guessing the boot sole twisted, and the torsion was too much for the toebox, so it cracked. The softer bellows really decrease the rigidity of the forefoot.
Though NTN provides a secure fit on the boot sole, it can't provide significant sole stiffening, so having a super soft bellows may be a problem since the boot shell is rigid, the two component flexes won't match up.
Maybe it's a one off failure, like an anomaly |
Which brings to mind Mitch's infamous 100-day test, presumably of the softer bellows--which did not break. Could it be a confound caused by refitting? |
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skibum
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 1862
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Nurse Ben wrote: | | Maybe it's a one off failure, like an anomaly |
When does skiing start for you? If anyone can figure out how tough they are, I bet it is you  |
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Nurse Ben
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 4227
Location: Riding my unicycle
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Could it be a confound caused by refitting? |
Like my kids say when they're in trouble: "I don't know, maybe..."
All I can say is I hope that everyone keeps faith in NTN, it's certainly not on purpose that Rotte and Scarpa have had the problems that they've had. I want the system to flourish and become the new norm. NTN really is cutting edge performance.
If my bindings stay together and the Evos soften as I expect they will, I'll be 110% satisfied if I am still skiing the same boots and bindings in the summer. They certainly skied nice on saturday
I think Crispi needs to start bringing more boots into the country...
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| Quote: | | When does skiing start for you? If anyone can figure out how tough they are, I bet it is you |
I would try my revised TX, but I'm afraid I'd damage my foot as the bellows collapse, so they are for sale, any takers?
The boot failure pictures are amazing, I'd only seen the right side of the boot, but the real story is on the left!
I wonder how it flexes now that it's cracked?
Last edited by Nurse Ben on Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:20 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Killingtom
Joined: 21 Nov 2008
Posts: 22
Location: Killington,VT
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| wow |
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Nick (AT)
Joined: 12 Dec 2004
Posts: 2378
Location: A Brit on the Columbia
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| Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:20 am Post subject: |
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| Dlira wrote: | | Which brings to mind Mitch's infamous 100-day test, presumably of the softer bellows--which did not break. |
Not relevant - the construction of the triple injected lower is too different from the old double injected one.
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Nick (AT)
One 6.5 billionth of the problem |
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Hamish
Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 1027
Location: Canuckland
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| Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:38 am Post subject: |
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It doesn't look like the bellows was the problem. It looks like the toepiece of the boot just split away from the front of the sole, and the crack ended at the bellows.
As the proud owner of a new pair of replacement TX lowers, I am not pleased to see this. Keep us informed on developments. I want to hear what Scarpa says about this. |
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