[Joelh]

Is this a tele or alpine ski: Tele
Length: 178
Tip width: 119 cs, 122 T4
Waist: 87 cs, 94 T4
Tail: 112 cs, 122 T4
Weight in this length: 6 1/2 lbs pair
Boots used: Synergys and T1s
Bindings used: CS 3pin Hardwire(blue), T4 Hardwire(orange)
How many days on the skis: 20
Resort or backcountry: Both
Geographical region: Utah. Uintas & Wasatch
Tell us about the terrain you ski: Area and BC
Do you know how the skis were tuned (bevel): factory
How long have you been skiing: Alpine, since leather and cables WAS alpine gear. Tele 5 years.
How many days a year: 40 to 50(but not this year).
Previous ski that you liked: CR 110, Arc Angel, TM22, FX 7.6/8.6, Piste Stinx, Superstinx,TMex,T3
Previous ski you did not like:
How big are you: 165 lb and 5' 9", Adv/Inter.
Mostly tele or parallel: 70T, 30 P

Comments:

These are 03-04 skis. First fat(now midfat , I guess) skis I 've spent more than a day on. Bought the Carbons on sale and then couldn't help myself when I stumbled on a pair of almost new T4s. Started skiing them last spring. Have skied in a good variety of Utah snow lately. Knee deep dry, Sierra Cement, wind hammered, styro foam, etc.

I like them both. In your hand and on the foot, they feel like the same weight. Flex patterns are very different. T4 seems softer along entire length, while Carbon Surf is soft in tips and tail. Midsection is noticeably stiffer. Both are fine on groomers at recreational speeds. I'd give a slight nod to the Carbon on firm/hard snow. Easier to initiate turns with the T4, but they wiggle a bit when you go straight. Carbons feel like they have a bit less "shape" to them. They have a tiny back seat to them.

In dry Utah Pow, both skis are delightful. Easy to skin with and ski. I skied up to knee deep and both skis were very enjoyable with the Synergys in soft light snow. In weirder snow, the T1s worked well with both skis. I liked the Carbons more for breakable layers and dense snow, especially with the T1s. As a comparison, I'd pick either of these skis over my Arc Angels(rock skis), in any conditions.

T4s look a bit sleeker and modern, but glossy top sheet shows scratches. Carbons have old fashioned straight side walls(easy fit in a ski vise) and a flat top sheet that doesn't show scratches as much. Both skis have up turned tails, but the T4 tail has a slight flat spot(not completely rounded). The G3 rat tail skin clip works well on both skis.

One odd thing about the Carbons, they have a camber to them when new, but now have relaxed. When you strap them together, it takes very little effort to press the bases together. But, if you put one of the skis on the floor and flex it, the flex pattern feels the same as always. Called Voile, and they said this is part of the design. Torsional flex seems unchanged as well.

I'd be happy with either of these skis. Both great in good conditions. T4, a little easier and more forgiving. Carbon Surf, a little more work and more versatile.

[andy m]

Thanks for the great review Joelh. You say that the Surfs feel like they have a bit less shape than the T4s. That's the opposite of what I would have expected, given the numbers - any thoughts on that? And what do you mean exactly by "they have a tiny back seat to them"? Also, your last statement about the T4s being more forgiving than the Surfs was interesting - thanks again for your insights.

[Joelh]

Andy,
As far as the shape goes, that's just the way they feel to me. Yeah, numbers wise it looks like they should have more noticeable sidecut. Turn initiation is a little easier with the T4. I've stared at them a bit, but it's hard to tell small shape differences. The Carbons look straighter, but then they have monochrome bases and tops(blue). The T4s definitely look bigger. By back seat, I meant that I could notice that the tail/back half of the Carbons Surf was a bit more stiff. ie. lean back and they want to scoot forward.

I'd say I'm an advanced skier on a good day, but slip towards intermediate when I'm having a sucky day. The T4s were easy to like from the first time I skied them. I initially would have put the Carbon Surfs in second place for my ability level, but the more I ski them, the better I like them.

[twopass]

[Joelh]

[twopass]

Ah, so w/the exact same binder the CS would be proportionally even lighter.

[Joelh]

Finally made it to "town".

177 Ticket, 4 lbs

177 Reverend, 4.4 lbs

I like the graphics on the G3 skis. But, might be some good late season bargains on the Rossi T series, since they have new models for next season.

[Rxtele]

I demo'd some 178 Carbon Surfs backcountry around Wolf Creek Pass and loved them. Much easier to drive than my older Yostmark Noodle Classics. Don't know if it is from shorter length or materials used in construction of skis

Then when I went to turn them back in, my wife surprised me and purchased them for me as used demos.
The next day, we went to Wolf Creek Ski area; they had got 15 inches new on top of the tons of new snow they had been hammered with over the previous several days. I had the best resort powder day of my life.

I have ordered Surf Skins for them and can't wait to skin up and try them more in backcountry