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rileybri
Joined: 31 Jan 2006
Posts: 1224
Location: Burlington VT
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 Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:06 pm Post subject: Big Jay Closed from Jay Peak |
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So I first herd this as grumblings and gossip in the lift line the other day. Things like there talking about closing Big Jay. I thought that it was unlikely at best. How do you close a mountain in VT?
Well I talked to the GMC today and found out that Jay Peak, the State and the volunteers group (never got a straight answer about who they were) all met last week and decided to fence off all access to Big Jay from Jay Peak. It is a one year trial closure is what she said???
It will still be open to skinning and skiing access but apparently there will be no more tram access. I have looked for an official announcement or posting but have not found anything. Anyone out there know more about this?
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"Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees." John Muir |
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rsireland3
Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 9272
Location: Northwest Vermont and EL/R -6.12, SL/A -8.15
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Not sure if the timing has anything to do with or not, is this in any way related to the lost skier this weekend? Or is it related to jail bird chute? or just "because"? |
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telemike
Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 3558
Location: on the wings of a pig
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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wasn't Robrox asking if'n it was time for NE folks to organize?
If the State of VT, a ski area and a volunteer group are meeting to discuss this, the meeting and it's notes should be available to the public.
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Bambi
Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 630
Location: Bristol
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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OT, but for those that didn't hear the end to the 'lost skier' story - she was found safe and unharmed. Apparently she was lost and didn't know where to go so just 'stopped' until she was found the next day. Must have been a cold night out there!
B. |
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telemike
Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 3558
Location: on the wings of a pig
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rileybri
Joined: 31 Jan 2006
Posts: 1224
Location: Burlington VT
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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| rsireland3 wrote: | | Not sure if the timing has anything to do with or not, is this in any way related to the lost skier this weekend? Or is it related to jail bird chute? or just "because"? |
No just coincidence, the meeting was last week. This is about the land trust and the land stewards trying to protect or at least mitigate further damage to the cut. Accosting to the GMC it was skied early and with little cover, in spite of signage indicating the restoration in progress.
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"Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees." John Muir |
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Bob T
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 2171
Location: Ammonoosuc Watershed
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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I heard that Jay Peak ski patrol and a group of volunteers enforced the closure of the Big Jay saddle trail (originally cut illegally by Jay Peak) this Saturday. I imagine someone from the telefest spoke to one of them. It would be interesting to hear what they said.
Initially a meeting between the VT Dept. of Forest, Park, and Recreation, Jay Peak Resort, and the GMC came up with the creative idea of signage that explained that when the snow depth got to the level of the signs you could ski it. Unfortunately, this seems to have been ignored.
So now they've escalated. The closure has a number of purposes. One is practical - give the swath a chance to recover. Two is symbolic - don't reward the cutting of ski trails on conservation easements with access.
Purpose One is controversial if you disagree with the two ecologists that were hired by the GMC to assess the situation and recommend erosion control strategy.
Purpose Two is based on more subtle considerations of human nature and is therefore more open to debate. The patrons within the GMC who helped put together the $430K to buy the conservation easement feel betrayed. They want to send a strong message to the "backcountry skiing community" that you can't chain saw ski trails on conservation easements. The ironic thing is that there isn't really a "backcountry skiing community", especially when you're talking about lift-served skiing out of bounds at Jay. But, that doesn't matter. The folks who put the money up want to be heard and this is how they're speaking. Also, I wouldn't underestimate the symbolism in having the Jay Peak ski patrol in on this enforcement. Bill Stenger probably felt obligated to walk the talk and put his resources to work enforcing the closure. I would bet the volunteers are GMC-related folks.
Some of the information here is gleaned from conversations with the GMC. Some of it is my speculation. Did anyone encounter the closure patrol on Saturday?
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mtbnskiVT
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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Bob T
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
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Location: Ammonoosuc Watershed
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Drop
Joined: 18 Oct 2006
Posts: 254
Location: North Haverhill, NH
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:54 am Post subject: |
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Is there an established alternate route for skinning to the top of Big Jay other than coming from the tram?
It seems to me that it would be tricky to skin up the steep and narrow chutes towards top.
Maybe contour around form the LT?
It would be east to ski the lower parts from the normal outlet at the road though. |
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teleVTpow
Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 903
Location: Deep in The Bush
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Bambi wrote: | Apparently she was lost and didn't know where to go so just 'stopped' until she was found the next day.
B. |
This would be a shame if its true, but I can understand Jay's stand with people like this lost woman going out there ^. I'm sure its just a deterrent for people that just feel like 'sitting tight' when they are lost in the Jay backcountry. Ya, sweet idea lady, "I think I'm just gonna sit this one out"  |
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Rider.Steve
Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 230
Location: In the sweet spot between the cradle and the grave (and Boston)
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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Silver lining?:
Looks like the chutes just got sweeter for those willing to earn them some other way.
Me I wouldn't - too much of a slacker. 
Steve
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Grant
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 5324
Location: knee deep
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| teleVTpow wrote: | | I'm sure its just a deterrent for people that just feel like 'sitting tight' when they are lost in the Jay backcountry. Ya, sweet idea lady, "I think I'm just gonna sit this one out" |
It's generally considered proper to stay in one place when you get lost in the woods. This allows SAR to locate you more easily and you are less likely to get more tired or hurt by staying in place. Build a fire, mark the area as best you can for overhead sightings, etc.
I'm not sure I would follow this advice myself, but then again I don't generally go places without being prepared enough to figure out how to get out. Let's face it, VT it's all that big of a place to get lost. 
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ATP
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 832
Location: the land of breakable crust
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Bob T wrote: | | Initially a meeting between the VT Dept. of Forest, Park, and Recreation, Jay Peak Resort, and the GMC came up with the creative idea of signage that explained that when the snow depth got to the level of the signs you could ski it. Unfortunately, this seems to have been ignored. |
Wow. That's a huge gesture of support for the BC ski community and much more than I could ever have hoped would be done. Too bad their show of faith was so quickly spurned. How anyone could see the signage and not choose another line is beyond me. What a couple of ***wipes.
Thankfully, the rest of VT remains open access. I'm a patient man. I can wait a few years to hit that particular easy-access line. |
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rileybri
Joined: 31 Jan 2006
Posts: 1224
Location: Burlington VT
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Drop wrote: | Is there an established alternate route for skinning to the top of Big Jay other than coming from the tram?
It seems to me that it would be tricky to skin up the steep and narrow chutes towards top.
Maybe contour around form the LT?
It would be east to ski the lower parts from the normal outlet at the road though. |
There is indeed an alternate skin track up via Little Jay. As for the closure, I can understand the GMC's frustration with people skiing the cut to early. Allot of people put allot of work into erosion mitigation and the like only to have it potentially erased by a few gapers who can read and have zero respect for others.
But again we, the "BC community take a significant hit from a distinct minority. Many of us put a great deal of effort into raising funds and awareness of this issue. Then with out any public input or warning a decision was made effecting just about every user of that parcel of land. its the secrecy and unilateral decision making that bothers me. I am not sure we would have had nearly the same support from the general public if they knew access to one of there favorite side country spots would be diminished.
This is a slippery slope we are on hear (ooo that was a good one) and I for one feel a bit deceived.
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"Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees." John Muir |
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