Skier 1 obviously has the moves down so my comment is more about the style.
Those short little snappy turns are so 90s. Go to the bar, slam a couple of shots, or head to the woods for a snap, then go back out and cut loose a little. Tele is so much more fun when you let the skis run a little.
Otherwise nice turns, 'specially for a recent convert.
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Tele-G
Joined: 26 Dec 2003
Posts: 235
Location: Cody, WY
Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 7:17 am Post subject:
Seems to have a-lot of 'alpine style' in him. Looks good though. More work on pole plant timing. Straightin' that back some more, gives better 50/50 weight on the skis and more rear ski control.
For only a year at it, I would say your doing just fine. You seem to have a good feel for keeping weight on both skis. It takes a lot of new telemarkers years before they get the feel for that. There's no hitch in your transitions and your not picking up your skis off the snow like so many beginners experince. I would say keep putting the days in and take note of what feels right and keep working on those things.
The one thing I would strongly suggest is equiptment mainly skis. Get yourself (if money allows) some nice mid fats with some side cut and you will be carving them up in no time. I can't really tell what skis your on but they look really long and skinny for the type of stuff you were on in that viddy.
As far as style the one thing I could suggest is get a little more on the balls of your feet. This will help get your feet under your body more. You looked fine when you were uphill from the camera. When you pass by the camera your front foot is absolutely flat on the ski and your legs are not getting angulation. If you pause the viddy at exactly 00:10 time frame you'll see what I mean. You'll note that your body is completly behind your front knee. If you can stand it up a little more and bring that back knee tighter in to your front knee it will put you in a better position.
The only other thing that I see is you have a lot of side to side movement in your upper body which is hurting you again on angling the ski. Steady your upper body and instead feel your lower body dropping more from the hips and knees to get the skis angling better.
Good luck and keep at it you doing great!
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Phreeheelin' Phine
What Goombay said; pull that front leg back underneath you so you can load the lead ski more efficiently and carve through your turns instead of skidding.
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Valdez Telehead
Joined: 13 Jan 2002
Posts: 3165
Location: Thompson Pass, Alaska
Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 3:23 pm Post subject:
Nice angulation and pretty smooth.......but those poles drive me crazy.
Poles are too long, affecting proper poling from a low stance, The lower you get the longer your poles become. The length looks fine for alpine technique, You can see how the skier has trouble bringing his poles forward of his skiis. Nearly all of his pole plants are slighly behind him. Perhaps he is tentative with the proper pole plant cause the pole grip would hit him in the head.
And as cesare once said so well...."squat, don;t spread" into a tele.
I say its a "him" cause only guys where a hat like that
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amueller567
Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 36
Location: Col O Rae Doe
Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:18 pm Post subject: steering
I agree with all above. I would say if you like that shooshing style then you are doing great. If you want to carve, you need to steer with your knees instead of you ass, which means drive your knees forward to steer but keep your weight over the balls of your feet. Again, this is only if you want to have a more agressive style
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Drew
"Enjoy the outdoors, you're livnig in a painting"
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Bob Chaliff
Joined: 19 Feb 2002
Posts: 212
Location: Upsate New York
Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 5:04 pm Post subject:
Nice turns, a little skiddy, as noted above but many of the fundamentals look rock solid and that will help see you though on the steeps and in more difficult conditions.
In addition to closing up your stance and getting your feet back up under your hips, I would suggest making a little more effort at getting your skis on edge and carving much earlier, at the top of the turn, not midway through it.
Tele-G wrote:
Straightin' that back some more, gives better 50/50 weight on the skis and more rear ski control.
Yep. Stand up and ski. Skier 1 exhibits a bit of a pronounced break at the waist and is probably using a lot of back muscles to hold his upper body in check. Shoulders over hips over center of stance is a general goal. It's a lot less tiring too.
A little more patience at turn initiation can be a good thing too, but those looked like very straight skis so likely they wouldn't start carving unless he was going 2x-3x faster.
Right pole plant varies from lazy to non-existent. The left is good.
Overall, quite a nice run though. The alpine background shows, which is fine. From the waist up it's all the same anyway. Just a few minor issues to fix to take it to the next level.
I am with VTH, poles are too long. I also suggest some shorter poles and getting those hands right out in front. I would also agree with working on more of an upright upper body.
But again, very nice!!
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christopher3000
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 94
Location: colorado springs, co/concord, nh
Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 5:27 pm Post subject:
I'd suggest keeping a more upright torso and applying more pressure on the rear foot earlier in the turn. It looks like all the pressure is coming at the end of the turn, and this is causing the turn to act as more of a speed check than it needs to. Let those skis run. I'm an advocate of getting bigger boots to provide more control, especially for someone with a strong alpine background trying to make a quick transition to aggressive tele skiing.
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christopher3000
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 94
Location: colorado springs, co/concord, nh
Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 5:27 pm Post subject:
I'd suggest keeping a more upright torso and applying more pressure on the rear foot earlier in the turn. It looks like all the pressure is coming at the end of the turn, and this is causing the turn to act as more of a speed check than it needs to. Let those skis run. I'm an advocate of getting bigger boots to provide more control, especially for someone with a strong alpine background trying to make a quick transition to aggressive tele skiing.
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dana
Joined: 14 Jan 2002
Posts: 2245
Location: Massachusetts
Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 7:42 pm Post subject:
The one thing I would strongly suggest is equiptment mainly skis. Get yourself (if money allows) some nice mid fats with some side cut and you will be carving them up in no time. I can't really tell what skis your on but they look really long and skinny for the type of stuff you were on in that viddy.
As far as style the one thing I could suggest is get a little more on the balls of your feet. This will help get your feet under your body more. You looked fine when you were uphill from the camera. When you pass by the camera your front foot is absolutely flat on the ski and your legs are not getting angulation. If you pause the viddy at exactly 00:10 time frame you'll see what I mean. You'll note that your body is completly behind your front knee. If you can stand it up a little more and bring that back knee tighter in to your front knee it will put you in a better position.
The only other thing that I see is you have a lot of side to side movement in your upper body which is hurting you again on angling the ski. Steady your upper body and instead feel your lower body dropping more from the hips and knees to get the skis angling better.
Good luck and keep at it you doing great!
The skis look like Rossi Black Widows ca. '97 : ~85/65/75mm x 201cm. It will definitely be easier on something with a softer flex and more sidecut (but not necessarily fatter under foot.) It's a bit tough to lay down clean rail-road tracks on those skis, no matter how good your technique is!
Goombay is right-on with the body positioning issue. Flex forward at the shin on the lead ski, not forward at the hip (don't lean your upper body forward.) Don't let the rear ski get too far back or it becomes all front-ski loaded. The rear knee should stay up next to your front leg.
I completely disagree with the statement "you have a lot of side to side movement in your upper body". Quite to the contrary, there is good lateral stability of the upper body, good slide flexing at the waist getting that hip to the inside of the turn. It just needs to stop leaning forward so much. There is quite a of up-down motion though, probably necessary to get the relatively stiff skis to bend.
The pole plants are a little late, but not by much. The right hand seems to be doing the GS racers "pole tick" type of pole plant (which is good, on cruiser runs like that), whereas the left hand has a tendency to "stab the mountain" a bit, which can lead to upsetting your balance if overdone. (In fact, it may be an unconscious correction of a slight mis-balance.) With hands a bit closer together in front it'll make for less upper body motion too. I didn't see much hand lag, just a hint of the left hand falling back right after the stab.
I'd say this skier is going embarrass 90% of us with technique by next year! (Especially after getting on some shapers!) He out-skis half of us right now! Who says alpine training isn't good for telemark skiers!?!
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esquiador
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 44
Location: The 20th Hole
Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 9:49 pm Post subject:
Exactly what I was going to say. Believe me, long poles really screw up your technique. I was skiing most of last year with the same poles I use to Alpine, and as a consequence, my technique suffered. When I switched to shorter poles towards the end of the season, everything was easier, especially the moguls, where proper pole technique is crucial.
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chucky gross
Joined: 14 Jan 2002
Posts: 755
Location: Solana Beach, CA
Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 11:15 pm Post subject:
chucky begs to differ:
not bad for first year, lots of potential. but there is some assistance needed.
swivelling...if you know what I mean.
swiveling, unfortunately, enables less weight to the ski that needs to be weighted. almost a cheated turn. this is usually a result of weaker legs unable to correctly or honestly weight the skis efficently. usually caused by a lack of technique in early stages of learning. and lack of support-strength to the drumstix.
tips:
strengthen the legs...or trust them more.
drive the knees and the skis...and stop the swivelling...if you know what I mean.
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cesare
Joined: 14 Jan 2002
Posts: 4564
Location: PRB
Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 11:29 pm Post subject:
Does chucky refer to swivelling of the hips rather than driving the edge of the ski through the hip, thigh, and knee? If so, I think I agree. Another way to say it might be to get on the edge earlier and ride it. We can say it's not so easy on those skis, but the reality is if you want to carve those on a groomer, you definitely can.
Nice skiing really. To get to the next level, need to get on the edge earlier and carve. Drive the edge through the hip, thigh, and knee on both the front and rear skis. This will be easier if the back is not hunched over like that. Straghten up! Drop your weight over the balance point between your feet. VT says I say squat, I remember saying drop your center of gravity, but it is the same idea and I agree with him.
Those poles are not too long IMO, they just need to swing around to the side sometimes instead of straight forward and back. this will allow the hands to stay in a more powerful driving position.
But don't listen to me. I am old and weak.
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I go straight until I'm scared, then start to turn.
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Brenda
Joined: 13 Jan 2002
Posts: 937
Location: Boston
Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 2:26 pm Post subject:
Huh. I had an instructor a few years ago tell me that I should be swiveling my hips. So it's not something one should do?
I thought skier 1 looked great--especially for 1 year at tele. Interesting to hear the comments--I agree with Goombay--the side to side movement was the one thing that really stuck out to me.
I always learn something myself, just watching and reading.
Thanks for putting it out there Skier 1!
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dana
Joined: 14 Jan 2002
Posts: 2245
Location: Massachusetts
Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 2:52 pm Post subject:
To get more forward ankle flex on the lead ski, if your boots have locking cuffs, UN-lock 'em for most skiing until you're sure you're getting enough weight on the ball of the lead foot. Locking cuffs and stiff boots often hinder developing the feel for it, leading to heel-weighted "peg leg" on the lead ski.
Hey Chucky, terms like "drive the knees" and "stop the swiveling" are so devoid of description that it's left up to the reader to conjure, misconstrue, and misinterpret. Tell us what you REALLY mean- be particular!
cesare, you too: What means, "Drive the edge through the hip, thigh, and knee on both the front and rear skis" in real, particular, totally mechanical terms. (Means shi-nola to me, and I can't imagine that it states anything clearly to a Skandahoovian. What's Swedish for "Huh, wha'...??" ? )
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chucky gross
Joined: 14 Jan 2002
Posts: 755
Location: Solana Beach, CA
Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 3:02 pm Post subject:
There was a good video on the lessons pages with Tele Tom demonstrating something called the "White Pass Turn," a progression to help the skier get on his edges at the top of the turn. This seems like something Skier 1 could benefit from.
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rsser
Joined: 19 Sep 2003
Posts: 50
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 9:10 pm Post subject:
my only comment is that it was a teaser vid--he was heading toward the other skiier lying down on the snow, and i was all hopeful that he would spray him with snow (those swishy tail turns) or something exciting but then the video ended.
seriously tho, his poles seemed a little long for his style.
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kr0necker
Joined: 01 Nov 2002
Posts: 81
Location: Livingston, MT
Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 3:00 pm Post subject:
1) Shorten those pole if you are going to run with such a low stance.
2) Dump the Rossi black widows and upgrade to a pair of shorter shaped skis, like 175s, you will be rippen like mad. With shorter shaped skis, your quick-snappy turns will come from the ski and not your lower body, making them less forced and smoother.
With new skis, your stance should straighten up making the front/back spacing of your feet shorter the lateral distance between you feet wider.
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cesare
Joined: 14 Jan 2002
Posts: 4564
Location: PRB
Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 3:14 pm Post subject:
Ok, I will try again, but my words will probably not make sense. I am talking about a feeling after all.
When I say drive through the hip, thigh and knee to edge the ski, I am talking about getting on the edges early in the turn and staying on it until I release the edge and initiate the next turn. Then I use my hips to ghelp me get on my edges as early as possible on the next turn. What we see, even in a lot of skiers who are a lot more athletic and dynamic than I am is that they get on the edges late in the turn and skid to scrub speed before transitioning to the next turn. That is because they are not driving the edges from the start. The swishy hip thingy comes when the axis of force is not through a strong line from the hip to the edge. Everything below the waist should be turning while the upper body is relatively stable, but if the edges are not engaged until the end of the turn, this often manifests in an the hips tipping in order to scrub speed without using all the leg muscles (like chucky said).
I like to make round turns carving on my edges. If I feel my hips swinging at the end of the turn and my ski sliding sideways, I do one of two things. Either I accept it as necessary for the terrain and snow conditions, or I regroup and try to ski more through my edges by paying attention to the power that comes from lining my hips up in the direction of the force over my edges. Maybe one of the reasons I tend to parallel when the going gets tough is that I am not strong enough to tele properly on my edges in all conditions. So I don't bother. It takes a lot less strength to carve a parallel turn than it does to carve a telemark turn.
I don't know if that makes any sense at all, but I still agree with chucky.
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I go straight until I'm scared, then start to turn.
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