[joesnow]

Is this a tele or alpine ski: AT
Length: 180
Tip width: 128
Waist: 98
Tail: 116
Weight in this length: 8 - 8.5#
Boots used: Scarpa Denali TT
Bindings used: Fritschi Freerides
How many days on the skis: 6
Resort or backcountry: 4 backcountry & 2 resort
Geographical region: Sierras - South Shore of Tahoe
Tell us about the terrain you ski: powder, steeps, trees, chutes, etc.....the typical Sierra fare.
Do you know how the skis were tuned (bevel): Slight bevel at tips
How long have you been skiing: Since I was 5 (27 years)
How many days a year: 70-ish
Previous ski that you liked: Atomic REX
Previous ski you did not like: Rossignol Bandit XX
How big are you: 6'-2", 185#
Mostly tele or parallel: All parallel, baby (with the occasional snowplow)!

Comments:
Having come off the 184 REX, I was ready for a fat floater that liked to be skied aggressively, but was not a tank. All reviews led me to the Verdict (and it helped my decision that Atomic makes BD skis too). First run down shin deep pow in the backcountry had me feeling a little tenative, as I skied them just like my old REX's - which required a perfect balance point in deeper snow. They were a little slower edge to edge due to the girth. On the second run later that day, I was in pure heaven. I decided to let them run, not be so perfect on them and found out they have a huge balance point. They never submarined when I leaned way forward as I initiated an aggressive turn in the deep snow, nor did they get squirrelly when I was tailgunning them in the back seat - they rode out any and every turn I threw at them. "Just bomb down the mountain, throw the ski on edge and they'll blast through (and above) any snow". It was the fastest tree run I had ever skied in my life, and was whooping all the way to the bottom. The following powdery backcountry days led me to an interesting revelation where I now feel the lack of stiffness of my Denali boots is the limiting factor for my aggressive, fast downhill skiing. If I take a helluva beater at high speeds in deep snow it will be due to the boot flex rather than the ski stability (It almost made me feel it may be time for new boots? - nah!). Skinning is easy and they felt just a wee bit heavier than my REX's.

My first firm resort day was my next big test. I had read they were "planky" or they skidded out on groomers. I expect these reviews were from not-so-aggressive skiers. They are as reliable as rails on the groomed. They can be loaded, hold an edge and transition between turns almost as well as my REX's. They are slightly less snappy in the tail, but that's good for a wide radius ski. I skied bumps and enjoyed them there too, but the tip stiffness is always a little too much for good bump skiing. My back doesn't need the bump skiing anyways. I skied a short super slalom course with them and they rode an edge as well as my old REX's. The only miff was when I was cruising down a groomer making subtle turns (just sort of rolling the knees to put the ski on edge). I forgot the 98mm waist requires a bit more than just a little knee roll to initiate a turn, and the inside ski did not go on edge while the outside ski did. This cross up sent me on my hip sliding. It was a good reminder that the fat boys take a bit of an active initiation to put them on edge.

The only concern I had was how far forward the mounting line is. I mounted the bindings centered on the mounting line, and have found that I have quite a bit more tail than many other skis of the same length. I can't say this has been a problem, but I will keep it in mind over the remaining days of the season.

If you are an aggressive skier that wants a fat, all around performer on a diet - go get them!
_________________
Viva La Nina

[Valdez Telehead]

Thanks for a good review. I thought about this ski quite a bit. My thought was it was a bit too beefy for anything but a T-1 type boot for tele purposes, which is pretty much what I think you would need to drive it in all conditions. Since the T-1 type boot is more for resorting and rather...stiff, it seemed not quite right for BC tele's.

mindless boggle...perhaps.

[Quadzilla]

Nice review I ve got 7 days on my 190's but I kinda have a jinx working as so far the conditions have either been super heavy wind pak or full on blizzard conditions where you could barely see your feet ect ect. So, no love affair yet. I did get a few runs on firmish groomer and the ski felt a bit catchy. That nite I worked on a tip and tail detune and flat filed the edges some as there was some railing. Got them out the next day and the difference was huge, nice bite but no grab and the ski just flies but so stable you feel like you are crawling. Anyway a 190 Verdict is a huge ski but can be skied on all around resort conditions and probably a BC stick too if you are a animal. For me I have a great BC ski in a 180 Jak BC so the Verdicts will be my full time resort sticks. Hopefully we got some powder coming in the next couple of days and these skis can get into their element.
_________________
Just Say No To Groomed Snow

[veernorth]

I was also a little worried about the Verdict, but have changed my mind completely. I have logged about 40K of BC on them since just after X-mas and have skied everything from the fluctuating New Year's conditions of the Teton's to S. Oregon mank. They turn well in a variety of turn radiuses and I agree--they are rocket ships on hard pack. I am using them with Matrix's and Dynafit Classic TLT's. The difference in weight between them and my Crossbow's with a Dynafit Comfort is not detectable by hand. I have also noticed the "lack-of" in my boots, but not to the point where a little more forward lean won't fix (along with the red Denali tongue I already use). When I purchased them I thought that they would be a quiver ski, but now my Crossbow's are filling that void, and while I have always preferred making more turns than not when "earning 'em", the Verdicts have me gladly skiing faster with larger turns then ever before. FYI: I ski aggressively, (now) 99% BC, and have been AT skiing since 1985.

[Rob]

I skied the verdicts a couple of bc days here in Colorado. I noticed the skinning weight over my crossbows immediately. Not insurmountable, but noticeable. I'm 175 lbs and rode the 180s. My crossbows are 179.

The mount point *is* pretty far forward, but they turned very nice. I felt that they were capable of making unforced short turns in the powder as well as long GS type turns (not my style). But the most noticeable thing was that these skis can truck. They are rock solid stable and unconcerned about anything in their path. I skied fluffy powder, wind slab, and crud. It all skied like powder.

They seemed to ski stiffer than their shop flex let on. I was expecting a bouncier ride but got a no nonsense charge as hard as you want type of experience instead. But that's fine by me.

I didn't get to try them in boiler plate as there wasn't any around. But in general bc conditions, my old-style T-2's drove them just fine. Since I'm a weight weenie, they wouldn't be my main bc ride. But if I had a pair, I'm sure I would find myself hauling them around the bc when I expected more than 6 inches of new.

[tongaroo]

One important distinction: I've been skiing the Verdicts in 180 (I'm 175#) for a couple weeks, now, but as a randonee set-up with Fritschi Freerides (not as tele skis). They're amazingly stable on groomers. I feel I can really ski fast on these, and they charge through the heavy stuff well, especially for their weight. Their size underfoot makes it a little harder to switch from edge-to-edge...no surprise, and they're not the most nimble mogul skis for the same reason.

One thing I noticed (no surprise) is that on bulletproof snow, they seem to chatter quite a bit. This may have more to do with their edge bevel (I'm still tweaking that), or that the Freerides seem to have the toes slightly elevated relative to the heel, but you're probably more likely to use the ski in heavy or powder conditions, anyway.

Overall, I really, really love this ski. For some background, I also ski Volkl Fat Bastards (maybe my favorite ski) for general skiing/crud, Volkl Gotama's on powder days, and K2 SuperStinx on groomers. I feel like the Verdicts are the lighter, backcountry version of the Fat Bastards.

David

[Valdez Telehead]

boy oh boy what I have done?

Went to replace my Havocs with Havocs...needed skiis quick, but no Havocs to be found.. Havocs had a "hangnail". Great ski, but I keep things simple with a one ski quiver for 2-3 seasons. It's the way I have always bought my new quivette...when they are inches from exploding.

A hunch...and of course a REI closeout sale geeted me this weekend in Anchorage as I stumpled through mountain bikes assembled, and not, in hopes of one pair of Havocs...173's..please.
This type of last minute chaos has occurred on each and every new quivette

Nada Gone...

SOoooo.... Found some 170 Verdicts and gave them a feel and figured what the heck..Beta was strong. underfoot width was charming, they felt nice, and the flex test was real, real interesting and familiar........grabbed a pair Cobra's for the test. I'll tele drive with T-3's and see what happens.

I looked had tested. wieghed, swung, jumped other skiis but kept coming back to the this one.

Best thing...my skins fit

[Gary at Tahoe]

Good move Valdez, you will be a happy camper in AK with these skis. I love my Verdicts in the BC. After every day on them, I wish I could ski every day, but work gets in the way.

Gary

[phaceplant]

What tele bindings are being used on this ski? I've got my eye on the Verdicts and just seeing what setups are being used.

[Valdez Telehead]

I grabbed R. Cobra's on a whim. This will be first time on hard cables. They weigh a lot and are pretty stiff, so I hope they work with my style of skinning and skiing. I thought my Riva Z's were perfect on the Havocs. Verdict is bit bigger so I thought more beef was needed. I think I can drive them with t-3's with this binding...more later after a some days on them.

[DrDanger]

First off a few things about me the skier to help put this review into perspective. I'm 47, 6'0", 165 lbs. I have only ever tele'd and have done so for 20+ years, and except during a period of divorce, ski 40-50 days a year. I do both area/BC skiing in the Wasatch. My last ski had been a 177cm Atomic TM ReX with HH binders which took me to another level of skiing. I just bough BD's Verdicts in 180's and have 2 days on them. Day 1 was lift served BC at the Canyons where I have a nearly private reserve of untracked that I do "trail maintaince" on about 2-3 times a week. Even with their heavier weight and a later start I was still able to set a new PR for me, and get 8 BC runs in over area I know very well. The terrain includes terrain in the 40-50 degree range and had 1-3 feet of very light to in places suncrusted snow. There are cornices drops and tight trees to navigate, all in all a good testing ground. They passed with flying colors. The biggest difference that they have made is when the snow is crusted, or varies quickly from turn to turn, they just keep on trucking with little concern. They handle high spped, down the fall line turns with ease , without the Atomic's tendency to experience rear ski nose dive. You can crank out rapid fire turns in the steep and tight with much more authority and "ginzu knife" like ability then I have ever experienced before.
Day 2, was a resort day, and it's been a while it's snow here in the Wasatch, and it was a Saturday so the snow was getting very hard and scrappy (sp?). I was pleasantly surprised tp see how well they carved and held an edge. I could straight line long steep runs without any chatter, arc turns of all sizes with great ease and confidence. I tried them in some med. angle deep troughed moguls and ...well lets just say that wasn't there forte....doable but problematic...and I love bumps. Maybe if the bumps where in more springlike conditions I could run rough shod and just mow over the tops of them but not when there are frim.
In summary, this is the lastest in a long line of skis that has continued to push back the boundries of what I have been able to do, I forsee much bigger cornice drops/jumps as these are much easier a landing with the bigger platform. Also big mountain style skiing is easier and more enjoyable. The only downside is the decreased bump performance for which I have other skis for. They have certainly lived up to what other reviews have led me to believe and I look forward to extending my terrain options!

[Valdez Telehead]

Dr D...thanks,,very encouraging. They do look hot/fast waiting baptism in a chugach font of powder. I am envious of your Day One for sure...

My current problem of course is designing a tip loop to hold my skins. Real odd tip....I think I will use 1/2" webbing stitched in a way to hold the tip and skin. Got clip=fix for the tails I did not like metal loops for some reason and back in the days of leather, we just used a web loop...kinda of a fun "sew" project while the glue sets. Even tried old skin for loops...which work, looks pretty and very clean.

Hope they skin well though they seem a bit stiffer than Havoc which were amazing breaking trails. The tips on these looks like they will smash through anything...

Tks all for the stoke....

[Valdez Telehead]

Worked a bit more on tip loops last night with thread and duct tape. These skiis have some wild tips, but I think these may work. Good use of excess skin. Old concept, modern materials. Wide loop that grabs the tip and has a bit of stretch to it for connecting the tail.

I posted a set of pics on the photo page this am FWIW..

http://www.telemarktips.com/Photopost/index.php

[andyski]

Joe,
If your skiing diet allows, definitely get some alpine boots for those. Going from my Langes to my Denalis this weekend told me all I needed to know about the difference in performance. Of course, I wouldn't hike more than about 20 yards in the Langes.

[Valdez Telehead]

mindless babble on a saturday am....

Well just finished 7 straight days on the Verdicts in about every kind of condition imagineable...seriously. First thing is they feel different in an "alpine ski" sort of way. Yes I used to AT years ago They did telemark outstanding in powder whenever I could find it. But I wanted to know how they ski lousy snows. I searched crud out and they bashed tele through that stuff very nicely, with good control. Skied through some sastrugi with less fatique and some control. I like the increased underfoot width compared to the Havocs, very noticeable. Yesterday faced with 1000' of boiler plate at 20 degrees, I abandoned tele, and practiced p-turns which could always use some work . Always handy at times. I tried, but was limited with snow quality, to high speed/GS them. But when I did they were very stable. I felt wind in my face. That's good enough.

And yes...a T-3 can power this ski just fine...suprisingly. But you need some good technique behind it for sure. Which makes this a nice light BC set-up.

Another nice thing was as hard as I tried, I could not get them to chatter...this is good. I thought the tip of the ski generally skied like the Havoc. But all in all, stability is better, control is better, which means more ski days on difficult conditions for old tele skiers like myself. This is not the feel of leather. High performance ski for sure, which leaves me plenty of room to push my own ski skills a bit more, but not too much.

On the skin... the binding may be a bit too forward as tip dive was an issue on my left ski for some reason, but I think I can balance that out and did not notice it yesterday. There were times when they floated over crust, when my Havoc would have busted through. Nice and gets the job done. My tip loops are working fine, but when I went to pull off the skins with skiis on, the sharp factory ski edge cut through the loop, so I may have to reinforce it with small small wire. I like these loops a bunch and wish I would have thought of these years ago.

Cobra..A bit heavy, but definetly feel that the T-3 is locked in tight. I have had to really loosen the wires (shop tech must thought I was into resort skiing) to get some decent pivot on the skin. I am still dialing in the one neutral setting so I don't have to dink with them skinning or skiing. They have a little black thing on the heel lifters that extends it a bit.....that popped off once. The whole lifter thing looks a bit flimsy, but it is probably better than it looks. Pretty high-heeled when I use it, but I think that heel lifter will not last in the Chugach.

I have no comment on the graphics which I could care less about. Despite some crosstipping while teleing. the top sheet appears hard with little cosmetic damage from the first week. The skeletal surface design bother me a bit, in that it leaves depressions on the ski top surface, which will collect snow, thus weight. (do they not think if this?).

All in all a keeper for sure and look forward to running all over the place on them this season and next and hopefully more. My quivette of one is complete.

FWIW....Day one baptism was a nice 35 degrees 1000' pitch in 16" very dry on very hard...That was sweet. Now let us pray....