[Danno]

[gary.schaecher@tmasystems]

All companies have a right to protect their intellectual property. That's the law. At the same time none of us know the entire facts surrounding nothing but a rumor that has been leaked to this forum.

It is not fair to either company to jump the gun based on the original email which was not substantiated as being accurate by either party.

I will assume both companies are run by fine people who are looking for a reasonable solution if there is a problem with infringement. I expect BlackDiamond and Twenty-Two Designs will find a solution and let us all know when the time comes. Let stop flaming a rumor and wait to hear from the parties involved.

They both make great gear used by many of us. As I stated earlier, I received a very nice email from BD saying they would post something here once there was a resolution to the issue at hand. Be patient guys...

[B.D.]

Ttips:
As always, we appreciate being given the chance to give the facts behind telemark tips rumors, so here they are, paraphrased from a return note we sent to a poster who kindly contacted us.

Black Diamond is an employee owned company comprised of skiers and climbers who laid it all on the line 20 years ago to start a company committed to making a difference, through innovative products & championing issues of importance to our fellow community of skiers and climbers. The community has responded well to our steady stream of innovations from Camalots to Flicklocks to Hotwires to Avalungs and 01's. We know what it is like to be 22Designs because that is where we started and, through hard work, creativity, user intimacy and laying it on the line to invest in innovations time and time again we've created a line of product that resonates with our community. We, however continue to be a relatively small company.

Along the way, after we invested many tens and at times hundreds of thousands of dollars (which for us is big), we have applied for patents where appropriate and received their protection. With some product we have not been successful with patents and we've been rewarded by imitation. When we have received patents for our years of work and investment we have requested that our peers respect them as we have of others since our inception.

Our attorney's have told us that 22Designs is infringing on our 01 patents in regards to the how the Axl goes from ski to tour mode. Hence we have approached them and been negotiating for a very modest royalty payment - a payment that will never come close, in its lifetime, to recouping the costs of our patenting process let alone the actual design innovations. We have never threatened to "shut them down" nor have we ever asked them to quit manufacturing their binding. We have simply been negotiating for a very modest royalty. There is no lawsuit. We are resolving this matter as businessmen and I believe they would confirm that we have claims which likely cover parts of their binding and if the situation was reversed, they would proceed similarly.

To truly innovate in ski hard goods takes risk, guts, commitment and $ and hence if you succeed in obtaining patents for your work it is fair for people to respect them. Without this system you discourage people from being the ones who take the risk because many don't work out. From day one this is how BD approached our business and it is how we intend to continue to approach it.

Thanks for the chance to state the facts so you can determine what your course of action in the marketplace should be. We hope we’ve given you a more complete picture of the situation.

Most Sincerely
THE EMPLOYEE OWNER SKIERS & CLIMBERS OF BLACK DIAMOND EQUIPMENT

[JoshTheSkier]

I see the similarity.

It's definitely a gray area, there are differences, but there are definitely similarities, too.

I'm reserving judgment until more facts come out.

I'm not going to boycott BD because of some rumors.

To be fair, BD does have the right to protect their intellectual property.
_________________
I like to go skiing.

[mattwells]

[James]

Thanks to BD for posting this.

Paul, I really feel some people choose not to see an overlap because they like 22 Design and all to easily fall int the habit of seeing all big companies as bad. I find the constant harping on K-2 and BD tiresome.

More to your point I think they both have similar ski tour mode switches as mentioned above and they both have similar under foot cables and dual springs. The only significant difference is the cable guides on the Axel.

[telekinesis]

Based on bd history with cabletrack. They are hippocrites. Bd pushed out the little guy who patented the idea for active tele bindings because they were big enough and could. No negotiating for modest royalties.
What a bunch of
BD
BS
Sorry black diamond. I respectfully decline to purchase your ill gotten product.

[nstelemark]

[hdiddy]

Oh hrmmm.... someone said that BD might do something nice...
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Oh yes I remember now...

[gdaut]

So this means.....................that you are on drugs?

NTTAWWT

[Whitehonky]

Not unlike Specialized liscensing the FSR link to many many companies for the duration of its patent. Not a ton of people hated on Specialized, as they spent a lot of time and failure developing the FSR. They do a good royalty program, make some bucks, and allow other manufacturers to come up with innovations based on the FSR concept. Nice parity.

This is now the same with the DW Link. The bike industry does this all the time... it works just fine.

No harm in BD doing the same, as long as the royalty schedule is fairly agreed upon by both parties. The choice is there for 22D and it seems the BD is extending them the opportunity to share in it.

We all know the 22D is on this forum, and they aren't commenting, so likely they're just working with BD to see how it can flush out.
_________________
There's no such thing as bad snow, just bad skiers.

[PNWTele]

Doing what you are legally entitled to doesn't always make one a good citizen. Being a good citizen often entails doing what is "right". A lot of people and companies do what is within the law but are absolutely outrageous. I do not believe that using what is "legal" as a standard of good behavior is valid, but rather spineless.

Patents are fundamentally broken and don't necessarily relate to innovation. When I worked in software, we routinely filed and obtained patents for really, really, really, dumb things. There are companies filing patents on anything they can think hoping to someday catch somebody using their "idea". Granted, there is a large difference in getting a patent and defending it. But a company such as 22D would have no hope of showing a patent is unenforceable and would be held hostage to legal threats.

If there was something truly innovative being infringed, then sure protect it. But come on, people. This is not rocket science we are dealing with here. Let's advance the state of the art.

[James]

I am glad you are the judge of such things.

What has BD done that is not being a "good citizen" or is "spineless"

[ScottW]

Well, they could become a non-profit and drop all their prices down to cost.

[telekinesis]

Cabletrack. The worlds first patented active telemark binding.BD went to court to not pay royalties. Excellent citizenry