[NTele]

I found some interesting stuff on modern racing techniques that is quite upside down from the traditional. Yes, it's alpine related, but if you're a technique junkie, then it shouldn't matter since the principles of skiing apply the same fundementals for both alpine and telemark.

If you're a Tai Chi nut then all the more provocative since this stuff was born from Tai Chi.

If you who want to chew on this new technical spew then check this site:

http://www.modernskiracing.org/techn.htm


My motivation for this is because I am an ardent self teacher of telemark skiing. I got my level III cert a few years ago and since then I have been waiting for a holy grail in modern technique. I can't say that this Tai Chi based principle is "it" any more than Harold Harb's phantom foot in his PMTS system was "it". I will say that the "waist-steering" concept is begging for me to try it out.

I am not a PSIA gang member and I'm in no way affiliated with ski racing at any level. I only telemark ski so I'm only interested in this as far as telemark turning is concerned.

I won't be baby sitting this thread. But I will certainly drop in to see if it sparked any interest. Sorry this wasn't chock full 'O wittiness. Witty rhetoric certainly rules this forum. Hopefully the pure technical nature of this is enough to carry the thread. Have fun.

[dana]

[NTele]

Uh oh. A big shrug.

Dana, I appreciate your analysis. I didn't see that you addressed the crux of the technique. The pictures and diagrams don't relate weighting and intention at all.

How 'bout a definition of waist steering.

Here goes:

What they ARE doing is this; they are first getting their ski on edge very early in the turn. They get their skis on edge by using the crossing muscles of the abdomen and hip area to create a twist in the mid-section of the body, the waist. Simply by contracting these crossing muscles and leaving the opposing muscles relax along with articulation or rolling of the ankles they can “rock” their skis sufficiently and quickly on edge to start any turn with either a carve or pivot.

As the turn develops they increase their weight bias to their inside ski and in particular the inside ski uphill edge. Right before they transition to the new turn the weight bias increases rapidly to the uphill ski and once again they use the cross muscles of the waist to rock the skis on edge BEFORE applying pressure in the carving phase of the turn.

The use of the crossing abdominal muscles is what is refered to as Waist Steering or the Twist.

The use of waist steering coupled with an inside ski weight bias depending on the turn does not end, however, with the initiation of the turn. Moving the weight bias to the inside ski at the carve phase and continuing to use the Twist will keep the outside hip flowing through the turn. This will allow the skier to use the outside ski with more or less pressure to regulate the turn while the inside ski tracks along its carving edge. The outside ski works much like the front wheels of the car while the inside ski creates the power and traction moving from turn to turn.

[Guest]

Thanks for the link n-t. I am an ardent practitioner of Tai Chi. I know I am sking well when I can make that association. As a friend of mine said it is often a matter of surrender rather than force that makes for a good run off the mountain.

[jjue]

Thanks for the link ... I have become a fan of using a very small torsionally rigid 133 cm ski ( the Hagan Freedom ) , On firm snow , I find that with this ski ( skiboard) using alpine turns I ski much more in a upright centered stance turning from the waist then in my longer skis where I have by habit always turned in the traditional more angulated way, It is a cool way of carving skis , and I am eager to see if I can apply the same turning techniques to longer skis ..... Having practiced tai chi and aikido where much time is spent learning to move from the waist , it is really interesting to me to see these techniques applied to skiing.... Ps .. how do these ideas pertain to the telemark turn ??

[JohanP]

I'm a fairly experienced practicioner of TaiJi (Tai Chi) and some other Chinese Martial Arts.

I find the cross over to skiing technique a bit far fetched.

Noticed the author started TaiJi in 2005.

Edit to add: FWIW I find some kindred feeling between BaGau Zhang (Pa Kua Chang) and skiing, especially telemarking.
This is because both require independent action of the upper and lower torso.

[2 tracker]

Perhaps this advanced movement is already being used by some skiers. Nothing new. I sucked 7th @ the Nationals.

[cesare]

[Cowboy Neil]

Imagine her (above) dropping a knee... Nice!

~cn

[JohanP]

[dana]

[cesare]

Thanks Johan. It's not the torso in my case but the actual hip sockets. Prolly arthritic by now, but denial is easier than any known way of fixing them.
_________________
that sounds like a sure-fire way to get bitch-slapped by devil's club -- dschane

[JohanP]

[geo]

Interesting rap - gone cold I guess - that book sounds interesting for sure - sounds like she did some homework on this subject. I realise JohanP had some issues with the Tai Chi crossover, but then again most of the discussion was focused on racing - the somewhat ultimate hard, icy end of what can start out as softer technique...

Anway - I too made much of the Tai Chi and Tele connection when I proctised the Long Form for 5 years. THe expert instruction I recieved, seemed to cross over perfectly onto tele skis - I thought that pretty damn cool. The shoulder witdh, the knee over foot, the centered, Tan Tien, (quiet upper body) etc etc. Certainly the final technique in Tele, as I can now see for racing tele - is breathing (of course ). I used to like to tell people that a lot of joy was to be found in controlled falling (down any fall line in any snow condition), but one obviously isn't going to suggest that to a beginner, nor is that Tai Chi (or is it?).

[thornton]

i started tele skiing long before practicing tai chi chuan. the crossover stuff for me is related to development of strong quads from practicing the 45 minute-ish long form and strengthening of the soft and connective tissues in the knees from "turning on weighted foot". i guess the strengthening of the upper body from weapons forms could help when touring....