Joined: 25 Dec 2004 Posts: 5720 Location: Switzerland
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:43 am Post subject:
JPL colorfully wrote wrote:
Truly, there really is no getting around the fact that the President sold the bill to the American people based on a fundamental deception.
And that deception is?
Did you think this was going to be free? It doesn't matter to you that you are already paying for health insurance,
so it is a zero cost increase in your life.
I just don't get your point.
You are intent on calling it a tax because...?
Or, is this just spin? _________________ You give us what we want in a week, or we beat the hell out of you and take it anyway.
--Anacreon message, roughly translated by Mayor Hardin
Joined: 07 Dec 2004 Posts: 5831 Location: Flying over the Earth poisoning you with chemtrails
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:59 am Post subject:
TeleAl wrote:
JPL colorfully wrote wrote:
Truly, there really is no getting around the fact that the President sold the bill to the American people based on a fundamental deception.
And that deception is?
Did you think this was going to be free? It doesn't matter to you that you are already paying for health insurance,
so it is a zero cost increase in your life.
I just don't get your point.
You are intent on calling it a tax because...?
Or, is this just spin?
_________________ Il n'y a que moi qui a toujours raison.
BF's French lady.
And it's just that I'm "intent on calling it a tax." Forget that the Supreme Court based its decision approving the law on its determination that it is a tax.
Forget also that President Obama sold it to the American electorate as "absolutely" not a tax.
Candidate Barack Obama:
"I can make a firm pledge. Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes."
The United States Supreme Court:
4. CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS delivered the opinion of the Court withrespect to Part III–C, concluding that the individual mandate may be upheld as within Congress’s power under the Taxing Clause... the payment is collected solely by the IRS through the normal means of taxation.
Comprehensive List of Tax Hikes in Obamacare:
While there are many reasons to oppose this flawed government health insurance law, it is important to remember that Obamacare is also one of the largest tax increases in American history. Below is a comprehensive list of the two dozen new or higher taxes that pay for Obamcare’s expansion of government spending...
Combined score of individual and employer mandate tax penalty: $65 billion/10 years
Excise Tax on Comprehensive Health Insurance Plans($32 bil/Jan 2018)
Joined: 08 Feb 2005 Posts: 3334 Location: Baton Rouge for a while
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:48 am Post subject:
I don't think that is anywhere the "the largest tax increase in history". Just another made-up statement by Rush Limbaugh.
Aside from the tax on employers, I can't see any good (IMHO) objection to these, considering the benefits. The $4 billion tax on individuals is really too small, considering the society cost of these individuals not having insurance.
Although insurance rates may or may not go down (the rates for me did this year), they at lease will not rise as fast.
As far as the tax on employers, it is probably going to cost some jobs from moderate-to-large size employers that primary low wage workers and did not provide some insurance. I don't know how many of these that there are. On the other had, it moves the cost/benefit analysis of providing it in the right direction.
In many or most states, there is mandatory auto insurance (not necessarily enforced. The major uninsured and untaxed cause of unpaid medical care is injuries from firearms. A tax at some level or required insurance would provide some compensation for the societal cost of firearm injuries. _________________ "It's what you learn after you know it all that counts" Earl Weaver
I don't think that is anywhere the "the largest tax increase in history". Just another made-up statement by Rush Limbaugh.
That's it? That and some blah bla blah are all ya got? Seriously?
If it's not it's certainly going to be one of the largest, and in terms of the way it also changes the fundamental relationship between Americans and their government, that would seem to put it over the top. When I saw the "goodbye Major Risk" thread I thought it was going to be about how our new insurer would eventually shut down high risk activities like bc skiing and climbing. It's already a box to check on life insurance forms, as has been discussed on ttips many times.
Besides, the issue is the President of the United States lied to the American people, even supporters of the bill like this Jack Balkin Yale Law School fella admit it even if you don't, and all you have to say is, "well there folks, it's not quite the largest tax increase in history, so calm down now, and here's some more nonsense off the top of my head while you relax."
It sure looks like Obama knew he couldn't tell the people he wanted to raise their taxes after promising he wouldn't, so he concocted this commerce clause smokescreen and tried to call the tax a "penalty" while having his surrogates argue in courts across the country, and finally to the SC that he had the power because it was a tax.
And a compliant press played along as they always do for the annointed one. I noticed that even the explosive NY Times article from 2010 that JPL linked to was from the financial pages!
Seriously, address the issue. Is it okay with you that Obama lied to get this through?
It sure looks like Obama knew he couldn't tell the people he wanted to raise their taxes after promising he wouldn't, so he concocted this commerce clause smokescreen and tried to call the tax a "penalty" while having his surrogates argue in courts across the country, and finally to the SC that he had the power because it was a tax.
Joined: 07 Dec 2004 Posts: 5831 Location: Flying over the Earth poisoning you with chemtrails
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:04 pm Post subject:
Jon Sulzer wrote:
satsuma wrote:
I don't think that is anywhere the "the largest tax increase in history". Just another made-up statement by Rush Limbaugh.
That's it? That and some blah bla blah are all ya got? Seriously?
You are a fuC{ing joke. Even when faced with facts you deny the truth.
Quote:
"Obamacare is . . . the largest tax increase in the history of the world."
Rush Limbaugh on Thursday, June 28th, 2012 in comments on his radio show
Quote:
That news has Republicans and conservative radio talk show host Rush Limbaugh bringing out an old -- and incorrect claim -- that the health care law constitutes the largest tax increase ever.
Rep. Connie Mack, a Republican from Florida running for the U.S. Senate, called it "the largest tax on the American people in history" in a press release. Florida GOP congressional candidate state Rep. Gary Aubuchon said on Twitter that the "ruling confirms Obamacare is the largest tax increase in U.S. history.
U.S. Rep. Jeff Landry, R-Pa., put it this way: "This is the largest tax increase on the poor and the middle class in the history of this country"; and Alabama Republican Party chair Bill Armistead said that "The United States Supreme Court has essentially created the largest tax increase in American history."
Then there's Limbaugh, who turned up the rhetoric on radio the way only he can.
Forget the United States,"Obamacare is nothing more than the largest tax increase in the history of the world," he declared.
This claim is wrong.
While the health care law certainly is, on the whole, a tax increase, it’s not the largest in American history -- and as such -- cannot be the largest in the history of the world. (Luckily, there's enough U.S.-based research that we don't have to explore the tax increases of the Roman Empire, adjusted for inflation.)
Quote:
The tax increases in the health care legislation do reverse a trend of federal tax cuts and represent the first significant tax increases since 1993.
But they are not the largest in the history of the United States.
And -- despite what Limbaugh said -- that means they cannot be the largest ever in the history of world. Limbaugh's inflated rhetoric takes a wrong claim and puts it into the realm of the ridiculous. We rate it Pants on Fire.
So now who is the IDIOT? Seriously. _________________ Il n'y a que moi qui a toujours raison.
BF's French lady.
For all your STFUs you do realize, don't you, that like Tom said, you have zero credibility, right?
The truth is, nobody really knows how big of a tax increase the shared responsibility tax represents. Just like Pelosi said, we have to pass it to find out what's in it and what it's going to do to tax rates.
Joined: 08 Dec 2004 Posts: 2793 Location: Bay Area
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:23 pm Post subject:
Thanks to Rush Limbaugh and all his followers for pointing this out (even if it isn't true). It's so nice to know that the top-bracket tax rate change, from 25% in the mid-1920s to 90% in the 1930s, in only a few increments, was relatively moderate, not as big a deal, compared to what seems like a fairly reasonable penalty (in that one only has to pay it if one doesn't do what one is supposed to do, namely, take personal responsibility for basic health coverage).
Joined: 07 Dec 2004 Posts: 5831 Location: Flying over the Earth poisoning you with chemtrails
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:26 pm Post subject:
Jon Sulzer wrote:
Chemman, so your point is it's okay that Obama lied to
get this through because the tax increase is not as big
as Rush Limbaugh said? Really?
I don't care how he got it passed. What you think politicians don't lie?
I don't care if he lies again to get the next increase passed. And he needs to make it a doozie! What we need is the historical tax rate from 1944. A whopping 94% That was back in the days we Americans actually used revenue to pay for wars. Back then it was a patriotic duty of citizens. These days it is Waaha, waaahaa the government is stealing my money waaha waaha. It is estimated that "The War on Terror" costs 4 trillion dollars, 4 trillion, some say 6. It is called pay the bills bitch.
More power to the guy that has big enough balls to tell the rich to kiss his ass and raise the hell of of their taxes.
It is no wonder that Romney is in this game. He stands to pay and additional $5 million in taxes next year if Obama has his way. Greed driven race, oh and of course he does not lie H-E-Two hockey sticks he doesn't.
Ron I hardly ever use STFU but in this particular case the RWNJ's are doing nothing but lying and looking stupid, they need to save face and STFU. _________________ Il n'y a que moi qui a toujours raison.
BF's French lady.
It will be paid by hard working American families who make too much to qualify for medicaid, but not enough to afford the cost of health insurance for an average familiy of four, the cost of which now averages about $20,000/year.
I'm more concerned that those underachievers might get some government-funded healthcare they don't deserve. It would absolutely tear at the fabric of American society.
It will be paid by hard working American families who make too much to qualify for medicaid, but not enough to afford the cost of health insurance for an average familiy of four, the cost of which now averages about $20,000/year.
So what where they doing before they had bear the burden of healthcare?
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