| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
davygoat2
Joined: 18 Aug 2010
Posts: 169
Location: wrong island
|
 Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 12:12 pm Post subject: avalung and treewell. |
 |
|
Whats the thoughts on survival rates in treewell traps with the avalung in place?
_________________
there are no bad days of skiing, only days I ski badly.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
SteveK
Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 3356
Location: The bull's eye
|
| Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 3:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Ask this guy.
Wear your transceivers, regardless of what other people think in the lodge. Wear a helmet.
And this sounds useful:
| Quote: | couple things you need to know.
Tree wells are invisible when they are most hazardous. They are an area within the light branches of a tree with extremely low density snow, and appears to be at the same level as all the snow around it. Only after consolidation and melting do you see the classic hole around the tree. In a good snow year, the trunk of the tree may be 15 feet below the surface. All you see are light feathery branches weighed down by snow and and the upper tip of the tree. It's the perfectly camouflaged trap.
The snow in a tree well is completely unconsolidated and light. Any disturbance causes it to shift and it does not pack. When a person falls in the snow tends to close in around them, and even enters their mouth and nose when they take a breath. If they don't panic, they can eject that plug and if their hands are free (not strapped to poles), they might be able to keep an air-space. There is lots of air in a tree-well and unlike avalanche burials, it is completely unconsolidated and continues to collapse, fill and sift through any void until it settles on a solid object (you).
Any attempt to self-extricate, or struggle or release your bindings (assuming you can do the inverted situp with a cocoon of snow and branches around you) will fill your precious air-space with another dose of choking dry powder.
Tree wells suck to be in. Just be aware that they are there during best lightest powder conditions, and don't bail out head-first anywhere near a tree. In my opinion, the best piece of self-preservation equipment would be an Avalung, along with riding with experienced partners. As long as you can maintain your airway, you have a shot at getting free or rescued. |
And check out this thread.
_________________
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with someone who is clearly unarmed. Target practice, on the other hand . . . |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cesare
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 13191
Location: People's Republic
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'm sure it could help, as long as it is already in your mouth when you go in. Can you ski with it in your mouth all the time when you are in treewell terrain? I don't think I could. Don't know of any statistics about avalung in treewell.
_________________
that sounds like a sure-fire way to get bitch-slapped by devil's club -- dschane |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wobage
Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 88
Location: Somewhere in the west....
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I have not seen much for detailed info on exact causes of NARSID, but just hanging upside-down has been attributed to suffication deaths (diaphragm pressure, fluid build up inlungs, etc ??), brain damage resulting in death (stroke, blood pooling, etc ??), and who else knows what? Again, I have not seen any scientific info on the exact cause of NARSID deaths, but having an Avalung will certainly not help if just hanging upside-down can also result in death... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SteveK
Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 3356
Location: The bull's eye
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
You could email Paul Baugher and ask him.
eta: This is interesting. (Big pdf file, may have been linked in previous discussion, can't remember).
_________________
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with someone who is clearly unarmed. Target practice, on the other hand . . . |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
stevesliva
Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 10121
Location: SEA
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Wobage wrote: | | I have not seen much for detailed info on exact causes of NARSID, but just hanging upside-down has been attributed to suffication deaths (diaphragm pressure, fluid build up inlungs, etc ??), brain damage resulting in death (stroke, blood pooling, etc ??), and who else knows what? Again, I have not seen any scientific info on the exact cause of NARSID deaths, but having an Avalung will certainly not help if just hanging upside-down can also result in death... |
You have a much better chance of freeing yourself if you're not suffering from asphyxiation... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hacksaw
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 3482
Location: Golden CO
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
Maybe the question should be: :"How many of you want to go head first into a treewell with or without an Avalung?"
Personally, when I heliski in Canada I have an Avalung rigged on my pack. Mainly for treewells vs. avalanches.
_________________
"Its all fun and games until someone gets hurt, then its a sport."
- - - - - - |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SteveK
Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 3356
Location: The bull's eye
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
According to a 2010 paper, it appears they don't have data on the mechanics of the asphyxiation:
| Quote: | | The specific mechanism of asphyxiation is not known. However, it is probably similar to avalanche asphyxiation death, which results from one of several mechanisms: airway obstruction by snow or by an ice mask, airway obstruction by positioning of the head and neck relative to the torso (called “positional asphyxia”), or asphyxia from rebreathing expired carbon dioxide. Carbon dioxide displacement asphyxia can be accelerated by ice mask formation or by lack of an adequate air pocket. |
link won't work, don't bother clicking on it, just cut and paste:
http://www.wemjournal.org/article/S1080-6032(10)00144-4/fulltext
_________________
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with someone who is clearly unarmed. Target practice, on the other hand . . . |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cat in january
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Posts: 7
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Always have carried a whistle in my emergency kit in my pack. Last season I switched to carrying it on a lanyard around my neck. My thinking was it might work in a tree well and also if I came into trouble off piste.
I know clearing snow might make it difficult, but it felt like a good piece of kit to have when I was out west in the big mountains. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SteveK
Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 3356
Location: The bull's eye
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 5:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Some packs have them built into the sternum strap buckle.
If not, mine is 'binered to the shoulder strap of my pack.
_________________
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with someone who is clearly unarmed. Target practice, on the other hand . . . |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
