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skifreeK
Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 11426
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Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:50 am Post subject: Thorium? |
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Locally, thorium has been coming up in energy conversations. I see by a search of the site that it's only been mentioned once and then once again as part of a quote of that post.
This region of western Colorado has always been energy rich. Natural gas is the current hydrocarbon crop of choice, though with the drilling techniques developed to get at our gas, all sorts of other gas around the country came into play and the rigs took off for those parts. Still, we're producing more than will fit in existing pipelines.
Oil Shale was a "big play" back in the '80's right up to the moment when Exxon literally flipped the switch and turned off the lights. It's still around and two term limited county commissioners are banging the shale oil drum. Besides not yet having a proven, economical tech process to get it out of the rock it's bound in, it appears it will take an enormous amount of water and electricity as part of any process tried so far.
Before that, this was a major uranium production region. The streets of Grand Junction were literally paved with mill tailings, or at least backfilled with them...as were thousands of house foundations, sidewalks, fill areas, etc. The 1980's saw a major mill tailing removal project at the cost of many millions of dollars. If you've ever been to Moab, you most likely saw the heap of mill tailings along the Colorado River there as well.
Currently, a new nuke plant is planned for eastern Utah. That brings us to thorium. Apparently, President Nixon picked a fork in the nuclear road back in '72-'73 and the rest is the history of nuclear power. Thorium based reactors were part of the discussion back then, but fell by the wayside on the path not taken.
Now, people are starting to talk about thorium again as a more viable and much less dangerous, less toxic form of generating electricity from splitting atoms.
Is a thorium based reactor system a viable component for our energy mix going forward? Should we be putting R&D money into it? Or, are there killer realities somewhere along the road between concept and completion which mean it's just another energy fuel fool's errand that we best pass by as Nixon did back in '72?
A primer from a guy who is biased in favor of thorium, but interesting none-the-less, imho.
http://thoriummsr.com/video/youtube/ |
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rsireland3

Joined: 21 Sep 2007 Posts: 17706 Location: EL/R -6.12, SL/A -8.15 in NW VT and slightly south of the Poutine Curtain
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Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:05 am Post subject: |
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Thorium will hasten the zombie apocalypse. _________________
| rl wrote: | | Kinda like post first then smoke crack |
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skifreeK
Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 11426
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Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:10 am Post subject: |
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| rsireland3 wrote: | | Thorium will hasten the zombie apocalypse. |
Well see, there you go. I did not know that. I assume, Nixon probably did...after all Dick Cheney was on his staff so he'd of had the benefit of his insight on that aspect of it. |
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chemman

Joined: 07 Dec 2004 Posts: 5820 Location: Flying over the Earth poisoning you with chemtrails
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ghostofcarl
Joined: 22 Jul 2010 Posts: 6562
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Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:31 am Post subject: |
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| fuckwhits here can't even google the periodic table |
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skifreeK
Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 11426
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Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:52 am Post subject: |
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| ghostofcarl wrote: | | fuckwhits here can't even google the periodic table |
What's the periodic table? |
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skifreeK
Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 11426
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Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:03 am Post subject: |
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Light reading. Summaries, conclusions, recommendations were helpful. Certainly not a silver bullet and several major issues especially with backside fuel reprocessing, but a HUGE positive in terms of plutonium which is no small thing. Just trying to hang on to the basics as a layman and appreciate any and all spoon feeding from those with experience and expertise.
If thorium based nukes were part of the mix and Iran were pursuing it's self-claimed, "we're only enriching uranium for power generation"...if they were building thorium based power units, there'd be no possibility of them jumping to weapons grade material, there'd be a lot less tension in the world/region, and maybe even the cost of gas would be a bit lower as a result. ? |
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slamdance
Joined: 03 Nov 2008 Posts: 834
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Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:21 am Post subject: |
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| skifreeK wrote: | | If thorium based nukes were part of the mix and Iran were pursuing it's self-claimed, "we're only enriching uranium for power generation"...if they were building thorium based power units, there'd be no possibility of them jumping to weapons grade material, there'd be a lot less tension in the world/region, and maybe even the cost of gas would be a bit lower as a result. ? |
Truther - Iran isn't pursuing this for energy production purposes so they'd never go with Thorium if they couldn't build a weapon from it. WTF is wrong with you?
I present to you Truther: A man who believes the CIA and the Joooooos were behind the 9-11 attacks and that Iran is building nuclear reactors for peaceful purposes!  |
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chemman

Joined: 07 Dec 2004 Posts: 5820 Location: Flying over the Earth poisoning you with chemtrails
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Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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| ghostofcarl wrote: | | fuckwhits here can't even google the periodic table |
So Einstein you should stick to the simple approach:
The rest of us will discuss the role of isotopes of Thorium and how it may relate to nuclear proliferation and the future of power generation.
As for the periodic table here are the pertinent parts:
And:
Keep in mind the U-235 and PU-239 are fissile, either can be use for the implosion technique, but 235 can be used in the much simpler gun type. As I recall the production of U-235 does happen in the Thorium fission chain reaction but the separation and handling of the products prohibit the physical assembly of a gadget because of hard gamma rays producing dead workers.
I think what is most intruiging would be using a MOX Th-Pu fuel in the form of a molten salt that would not require fabrication of fuel rods or any type of coolant. _________________ Il n'y a que moi qui a toujours raison.
BF's French lady.
http://cleardarksky.com/c/LkDllnObCokey.html |
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Baaahb

Joined: 07 Jan 2005 Posts: 15744 Location: Ponderosa
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Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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Darn. I thought this was about comic book heroes. _________________ Other vegetables have a hard time competing with potatoes. |
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skifreeK
Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 11426
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Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| chemman wrote: | ...
I think what is most intruiging would be using a MOX Th-Pu fuel in the form of a molten salt that would not require fabrication of fuel rods or any type of coolant. |
FMLUK (from my limited understanding and knowledge) corrosion is an issue with the salts but it can be dealt with through the magic of chemistry....but...the lack of any need for any type of coolant is potentially huge (?) No possibility of steam explosions with complete power/circulation loss? Worse case scenario fail-safe is that the heat buildup causes a frozen blocking plug to melt and the bad ju-ju gravity drains into a holding tank?
Am I getting that right? |
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chemman

Joined: 07 Dec 2004 Posts: 5820 Location: Flying over the Earth poisoning you with chemtrails
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Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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| skifreeK wrote: | | chemman wrote: | ...
I think what is most intruiging would be using a MOX Th-Pu fuel in the form of a molten salt that would not require fabrication of fuel rods or any type of coolant. |
FMLUK (from my limited understanding and knowledge) corrosion is an issue with the salts but it can be dealt with through the magic of chemistry....but...the lack of any need for any type of coolant is potentially huge (?) No possibility of steam explosions with complete power/circulation loss? Worse case scenario fail-safe is that the heat buildup causes a frozen blocking plug to melt and the bad ju-ju gravity drains into a holding tank?
Am I getting that right? |
Designed correctly it would operate at atmospheric pressure and once circulation stops fission stops. And the the thing consumes plutonium but produces about 70% of its energy from the more abundant thorium. It makes so much since it would probably never happen. _________________ Il n'y a que moi qui a toujours raison.
BF's French lady.
http://cleardarksky.com/c/LkDllnObCokey.html |
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Jim
Joined: 07 Dec 2004 Posts: 1685 Location: North Ogden, Ut or upstate NY
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Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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But what effect does it have on Superman? _________________ You know it's a good day when you wake up in the morning. |
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skifreeK
Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 11426
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Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Jim wrote: | | But what effect does it have on Superman? |
Excellent question. I commend you for thinking it up and asking, but have to dock you a couple of atta-boys for not doing a little-itty-bitty of clicky-click to try and find the answer for yourself. You can do it Jim, channel your courage to ask into overcoming your fear of looking.
http://superman.wikia.com/wiki/The_Atom_Man
Here, though, just to start you off on your "look it up" adventures as gently as possible, I'll save you having to click that link.
| Quote: | | The Atom Man was created by the evil Nazi scientist Der Teufel in 1945, as part of his dream to finally destroy Superman and conquer the world. The concept was simple to Teufel: use the kryptonite stolen from the Scarlet Widow; convert the kryptonite to liquid and inject it into a test subject; and use a special converter box on the throat and meshed gloves of platinum and thorium. The converter, when switched, would flash to the kryptonite in the bloodstream, "rearranging the outer structure of the atoms," and when they reach the gloved hands, "the nucleus of the atom is broken, and there will emerge from his fingers a stream of energy such that anything in its path- be it men, or great buildings, or even mountains, will disappear as if they had never been there!"[1] |  |
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skifreeK
Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 11426
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Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| chemman wrote: | | It makes so much sense (fify) it would probably never happen. |
This youtube from the op has an overview of Nixon and the events starting around '72 that took us down the non-thorium fork in the nuclear power road. Makes you wonder a few what-if's.
Nixon part kicks in around the 11:30 minute mark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bbyr7jZOllI#at=650 |
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