Joined: 08 Feb 2005 Posts: 3368 Location: Baton Rouge for a while
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:14 am Post subject:
The laws are only marginally important anyway. It's reasonable for any white person to be mortally afraid of any black, Hispanic,or other non-white person.
Here is an incident from the past out of Baton Rouge:
Joined: 07 Jan 2005 Posts: 15772 Location: Ponderosa
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 2:37 pm Post subject:
Ok, so maybe there's only 5 million yahoos out there ready to shoot anybody who appears threatening to them.
does that make you feel better???????????????????????????????
In these threads, the "pro gun" lobby generally tries to shoot the messenger rather than deal with the actual issue.
It makes the argument so much easier, just like trying to live with those frightening teenagers wearing hoodies. Easier just to shoot them.
So, anyone want to defend the Florida gun law? jw?
We have several examples in the articles of innocent people shot by vigilantes and avoiding scrutiny under Florida's "stand your ground law"
The stand your ground law is intended to allow people to defend themselves. Are people not allowed to defend themselves under other state's laws?
Where are all the stories about people acting in self defense in other states and ending up in prison?????????????? _________________ Other vegetables have a hard time competing with potatoes.
vigilantism has nothing to do with the right to bear arms or defend yourself.... easy stuff... prosecute the guy... the law can stand as is, he stepped outside it
maybe he is just a product of his environment however, in fact we must take into consideration the culture around him, i think perhaps he should head to europe while he can
tell us more Baaahb, enlighten us to the enlightened way and please tell us why you try to disguise your opposition to public ownership of firearms while the bottom line with you is always right there in the open with your posts
no more responses from me on this thread that aren't your own quotes, i love when you disagree with yourself and your proclamations. _________________
wow wrote:
Complexity adds confusion whether you are in charge of an avalanche center or headed out for the first tour.
Joined: 07 Jan 2005 Posts: 15772 Location: Ponderosa
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:55 pm Post subject:
jw wrote:
vigilantism has nothing to do with the right to bear arms or defend yourself.... easy stuff... prosecute the guy... the law can stand as is, he stepped outside it
maybe he is just a product of his environment however, in fact we must take into consideration the culture around him, i think perhaps he should head to europe while he can
tell us more Baaahb, enlighten us to the enlightened way and please tell us why you try to disguise your opposition to public ownership of firearms while the bottom line with you is always right there in the open with your posts
no more responses from me on this thread that aren't your own quotes, i love when you disagree with yourself and your proclamations.
jw, once again you miss the point. the question isn't whether the public should have the right to own guns; the question is Florida's "stand your ground law".
As evidenced by the instant case, where the police chief felt the law did not allow him to prosecute the individual, the law does in fact encourage vigilantism. in fact, there is substantial evidence - that you summarily disregard - that the law encourages vigilantism
your stand is clear...any law that promotes gun ownership or self-defense is good - no matter if it leads to vigilantism or makes it easier for criminals to own guns...the problem is enforcement i.e. make the laws as strong as possible and trust that their administration will fix any concerns
while any law that restricts gun ownership is bad because it MIGHT be enforced overzealously, i.e. don't let any law on the books cause who knows what it could lead to next.....(Obama is going to take all your guns away, it's in the double-dare secret platform)
obvious double standard but I doubt you see it _________________ Other vegetables have a hard time competing with potatoes.
Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 7138 Location: Breckenridge CO
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:23 pm Post subject:
The US is a country that is awash with firearms and fear. It's not surprising that violent crime and to a lessor extent violent vigilantism is not uncommon. It's part of the price we pay for the national affection for guns. _________________ Creeds and doctrines are like a raft to get you to the other shore and then to relinquish. Neither cling to the raft or reject it when drowning. Even better, become a strong swimmer.
The US is a country that is awash with firearms and fear. It's not surprising that violent crime and to a lessor extent violent vigilantism is not uncommon. It's part of the price we pay for the national affection for guns.
definitely it's all because of our 'national affection for guns', without it or them we would be a peaceful, fearless nation.... crystal clear logic hutguy, makes perfect sense
we could then have all the alcohol, drugs (legal and prescription) we want, we would never have to lock our doors, or safeguard our possessions, women would be able to never fear for their safety from violent sex predators, it would be a peaceful 'buddah' like existence here, much like it is in all the other countries around the world who have none of our 'violence' problems because they don't have an 'affection for guns'.
It is all basically the presence of firearms that causes all our societies violent ills. Thanks for the plain and simple fact of the matter. _________________
wow wrote:
Complexity adds confusion whether you are in charge of an avalanche center or headed out for the first tour.
Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 7138 Location: Breckenridge CO
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:40 pm Post subject:
jw wrote:
hutguy wrote:
The US is a country that is awash with firearms and fear. It's not surprising that violent crime and to a lessor extent violent vigilantism is not uncommon. It's part of the price we pay for the national affection for guns.
definitely it's all because of our 'national affection for guns', without it or them we would be a peaceful, fearless nation.... crystal clear logic hutguy, makes perfect sense
we could then have all the alcohol, drugs (legal and prescription) we want, we would never have to lock our doors, or safeguard our possessions, women would be able to never fear for their safety from violent sex predators, it would be a peaceful 'buddah' like existence here, much like it is in all the other countries around the world who have none of our 'violence' problems because they don't have an 'affection for guns'.
It is all basically the presence of firearms that causes all our societies violent ills. Thanks for the plain and simple fact of the matter.
When you look at other "western" and "civilized" countries do you find the same level of violent crime as the US. The US has some of the most lax gun laws of all those countries and it correspondingly has a higher rate of violent crime and what might be considered non criminal gun violence (what is called"self defense" as well as accidental shootings and so on.
Is all this violence when compared to other industrial western nation due to our gun laws? maybe not all by itself, but add in the fear that we seem to have for one another, especially the fear we have for someone outside of our "tribe" and mix in widely available firearms and you have the ingredients for a lot of shootings.
Maybe a start is that you have to have a license to own a firearm that is subject to rigorous training. It seems illogical to me that it is harder to get a drivers license in this country - and it's ridiculously easy to get a drivers license - than to be allowed to own an easily concealed deadly weapon. Make owning a firearm a more selective process which you can loose easier (the well regulated militia) and maybe fewer incidents like this would occur. _________________ Creeds and doctrines are like a raft to get you to the other shore and then to relinquish. Neither cling to the raft or reject it when drowning. Even better, become a strong swimmer.
you were right the first time hutguy.... don't back down now, look at the firearm numbers... look at the 'tribal' warfare happening in every city and every town, shootouts daily between the tribes, it's a war zone in this country, right? I mean look at all the 'gun owners' (real numbers are huge like you imagine), look at how many of them have killed somebody because they are 'afraid', it's rampant.
Just on anecdotal evidence alone you could make your point, think of all the people you know who have owned a firearm or do own one, think of all them who have killed or injured someone with it because they are afraid of others 'different then them. Surely you have stories.... afterall we are the most violent of all people.....
There is some 'fear' out there alright. _________________
wow wrote:
Complexity adds confusion whether you are in charge of an avalanche center or headed out for the first tour.
Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 7138 Location: Breckenridge CO
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:05 pm Post subject:
jw wrote:
you were right the first time hutguy.... don't back down now, look at the firearm numbers... look at the 'tribal' warfare happening in every city and every town, shootouts daily between the tribes, it's a war zone in this country, right? I mean look at all the 'gun owners' (real numbers are huge like you imagine), look at how many of them have killed somebody because they are 'afraid', it's rampant.
Just on anecdotal evidence alone you could make your point, think of all the people you know who have owned a firearm or do own one, think of all them who have killed or injured someone with it because they are afraid of others 'different then them. Surely you have stories.... afterall we are the most violent of all people.....
There is some 'fear' out there alright.
I didn't say it's "rampant" I said it's much higher here than in other countries and that is a consequence of the easy availability of firearms and the "gun culture"
Some might think that price is worth paying for they think is an intrinsic right of a free people. Others might think that some basic common sense restrictions are appropriate. Others might think all private firearm ownership should be tightly regulated or eliminated. All have their point of view, but the statistics on firearm violence in what is supposed to be a highly developed and "civilized" nation are IMO, pretty sobering. _________________ Creeds and doctrines are like a raft to get you to the other shore and then to relinquish. Neither cling to the raft or reject it when drowning. Even better, become a strong swimmer.
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