My husband tried to teach me but his advice was only marginally helpful, then someone I only knew a little gave me some good pointers out on the track one day and his 5 minutes of instruction helped out big-time because he had some great drills and a particularly good way of explaining things. !
I'm willing to bet your husband's advice was fine, if only you'd listened to him instead of getting frustrated because he was better than you, and getting angry is easier than actually trying to follow directions, and get better. No, instead you had to sulk, and moan, and complain... Uhh, wait, am I reading too much into this?
Joined: 12 Jan 2005 Posts: 1060 Location: Somewhere in the land of Oz
Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:15 am Post subject:
Whether and how much lessons might help depends to some extent on your learning style, but I've always managed to learn something from every lesson I've had. And IMHO the better the example you get the easier it is to emulate, at least if you're a visual learner. Slightly short (5cm) poles aren't too big a deal and will ensure you keep the tempo up, which will help on climbs, whereas too long poles will likely just tire you out and give you a sore back. Also, the more glide you have the easier everything will be - including climbing - so don't use grip wax on skating days. _________________ Nashti zhas vorta po drom o bango
I am a fairly proficient skate skier and have never had a lesson. I just went out and did it and spent a lot of time skiing with classic skiers so didn't have a mentor. When my brother became involved in skating he is more involved in learning theory and technique and watch all the Bill Koch vids on youtube. He would then pass on tiny tidbits that you could never really figure out on your own and they made HUGE differences in my ability. Coming from a do it yourself mentality I would and hope to take advanced lessons some day.
Last edited by Hoka Hey on Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 20 Oct 2005 Posts: 17733 Location: following Diogenes, but the ba$tard threw away the lamp so I'm just stumbling along in the dark!
Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:18 pm Post subject:
Hoka Hey wrote:
I am a fairly proficient skate skier and have never had a lesson. I just went out and did it and spent a lot of time skiing with classic skiers so didn't have a mentor. When my brother became involved in skating he is more involved in learning theory and technique and watch all the Bill Koch vids on youtube. He would then pass on tiny tidbits that you could never really figure out on your own and they made HUGE differences in my ability. Coming for a do it yourself mentality I would and hope to take advanced lessons some day.
Same boat. Started skating when Bill K. started doing it in races and bought skate skis the second year they were available. It was astounding the number of tips we skaters started passing along to each other..the community was pretty small but we all pitched in with a will.
One of our posters regularly does a skate tour in the Sierra Spring conditions. It's another mark of how versatile skating can be...given a personal vision. _________________ "Moderate is not the new Low" - Chris Joosen, USFS Lead Snow Ranger (Tuckerman Ravine, White Mountains National Forest)
Joined: 31 May 2006 Posts: 155 Location: Truckee/Tahoe Donner
Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:17 pm Post subject:
Hi Matt,
I guess as the "Sierra Spring" skate tourer mostly likely mentioned, I'll chime in. I've taught hundreds of people to skate, and the most important thing to mention is that it does take some patience and adherence to learning skills to become proficient. Anyone can go out there and learn to "skate" very quickly, but to do it efficiently is another story. You're basically matching up balance, timing, and power in a single, fluid gliding motion, with power being the least important of the three.
Definitely take a lesson or two, and then spend some QUALITY time on snow practicing what you learn. Skiing easy on the flats with no poles is especially helpful.
Definitely do NOT grip wax the kick zone of your skis. Skating is all about the glide, and anything you do to decrease that glide (sticky skis, not riding a flat ski, weight not transferred properly) will significantly decrease your enjoyment of the learning process.
So, go out there and spend a couple of hours just honing some skills, then take a lesson or two, and go spend some more time afterward just working on those skills. Those 5 or 6 hours spent learning instead of flailing will help you immensely in the future, and will be a great investment in your enjoyment of the sport.
Joined: 20 Oct 2005 Posts: 17733 Location: following Diogenes, but the ba$tard threw away the lamp so I'm just stumbling along in the dark!
Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:22 pm Post subject:
Captain Nordic wrote:
...I guess as the "Sierra Spring" skate tourer mostly likely mentioned, I'll chime in....
Captain Nordic
Looking forward to the TRs!
Back in the day most of us were trying to work out how to go fast and go long. It seemed like there was something to try out almost every week.
It took a while to get the hang of it, but skating in a level snowshoe track was one of the games to play.
I so agree, time spent with a talented teacher and lots of practice are the only ways to go! _________________ "Moderate is not the new Low" - Chris Joosen, USFS Lead Snow Ranger (Tuckerman Ravine, White Mountains National Forest)
I have a good friend who is a fairly accomplished skate skier. National champ, on the world cup circuit, and all that. He spends a lot of time getting lessons and working on technique. If it can help him, my guess is it can help the rest of us as well.
Joined: 18 Mar 2005 Posts: 1513 Location: Eagle River Alaska
Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:13 am Post subject:
some thoughts:
-Keep your arms shoulder whith apart extra movement is wasted energy
-Learn when to use V1 V2 V1.5 turbo skate and tuck (and what they are)
-Keep Your head level looking ahead
-skate around corners
-wax your skis
-ski with no poles as a warmup
-join a nordic masters club
also:
RACE!!! its so much fun to race _________________ Skis: $599
Bindings: $125
Boots: $125
Backpack: $90
Skins For Christmas: Priceless
Joined: 20 Oct 2005 Posts: 17733 Location: following Diogenes, but the ba$tard threw away the lamp so I'm just stumbling along in the dark!
Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:53 pm Post subject:
ak_powder_monkey wrote:
some thoughts:
...RACE!!! its so much fun to race
This advice is a double edged sword!
If you get serious about it you will find yourself in pain, right up to your limit...which will slowly become higher....
It will hurt and then you will be in preparation for doing it again....repeat until injury, and probably several cyles of "after recovery" too! That is a disease and only the truly sick find it fun. It is satisfying sometimes, but only because your pain threshold was higher than the other guy's.
If you can manage to keep it just for fun, that's what it will be.
Pain or fun, you get to decide....decide early!!! _________________ "Moderate is not the new Low" - Chris Joosen, USFS Lead Snow Ranger (Tuckerman Ravine, White Mountains National Forest)
Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:01 pm Post subject: Re: Skate Skiers -->
Matt J wrote:
I do generally find that doing something well is more fun than doing it poorly.
Skating on cross-country skis is about the most complicated human-muscle propulsive motion. Figuring out what "doing it well" is -- very hard complicated problem. Much of it is subtle and counter-intuitive. Lots of contradictory opinions out there. You might get good advice about "doing it well" from a lesson -- or you might get bad advice.
You're more likely to achieve a goal of "having fun", than a goal "doing it well".
My advice: Take a couple of lessons as you're getting started -- maybe from two different instructors at different ski centers. Because something about your initial instinctive skating style might be so ineffective that most instructors could help your fix it -- so if you try two, odds are pretty good at least one of them will help you get past that hang-up.
If you enjoy playing with the feelings of different technique styles, then take some more lessons. Not because they are guaranteed to get you closer to "doing it well", but because they'll push you out of your instinctive rut, so you'll feel new things you wouldn't have on your own. Whether those new things are effective for you, who really knows?
Matt J wrote:
I feel like I'm doing pretty well following a book I bought although I have been sticking to easier terrain.
Learning ski skating from books is pretty hopeless.
Videos -- I thought highly of the EMBK ski club sequence when I saw it -- better than the others available. Videos of the top World Cup racers generally show excellent technique. The big problem is that what's really important for effective skating is subtle and hard to see in a video unless you really know what to look for. So you end up trying to mimic lots of obvious moves that really aren't that important for effective skating.
No-poles skating -- good approach to learning, because it offers some hope of handling the complexity.
My advice for having fun:
Just use "herringbone skate" with single-pole pushes as a simple way to get up thru the steep sections without burning out -- to save your muscles for enjoying the gentle sections and downhills.
Joined: 07 Dec 2004 Posts: 7402 Location: Northwest B.C.
Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:31 pm Post subject:
mekon wrote:
And I know you just bought your combi skis, so I don't mean to be a downer, but used skate gear seems very easy to find and not too pricey. As one of our local sales guys said: "Combis give you the worst of both worlds!"
This^^^ I haven't skied combis but I have heard that I won't want to
I help at the alpine & XC swaps mostly to get 1st tracks thru the gear IME decent used gear in alpine or tele is not so hard to find, but with XC ski gear its almost impossible to get a complete setup that is the correct size , the correct flex right boot for the binding yada yada
maybe the used market is different where you roll but from what I have seen at 2 ski areas the inventory of good used gear has been snapped up by new people taking up XC skiing and there is none to be had .
look at the OP he bought the wrong skis which are also too short and the poles are too short, hopefuly the boots are right
last yr my roomie came home with a nice set of higher end skate skis but classic boots
IMO people need to go buy the correct xc package to fit their budget from a GOOD shop,note that if a good shop is not asking your weight (if not weighing you) and testing the skis they are selling you with a guage or at least the flat surface/feeler guage method ...find a store that does
kinda fun that there's this much enthusiasm for skate skiing on this forum
XXX'er you'll be proud to know that the boots are actually quite tight too!
I bought my whole set up at a second hand gear store and it was obvious that it was someone's whole package that was a bit smaller than me.
The combi skis are working out just fine for now and they fit my budget so I'll just look at how excited I'll be when I get some really fast gear.
I raced bikes for quite a few years and it's not something I'm interested in getting into again. I'm plenty competitive with myself to get out frequently and enjoy this activity without racing.
Some of you may remember my thread at the beginning of the season about buying a new AT set up. I enjoyed the fix heel skiing enough to buy some secondhand boots and bindings and mount up an older pair of boards for resort skiing. So, I've been playing around with that stuff more the last few days than my new to me skate stuff.
Joined: 02 Mar 2007 Posts: 1922 Location: Nova Scotia
Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:08 pm Post subject:
XXX_er wrote:
mekon wrote:
And I know you just bought your combi skis, so I don't mean to be a downer, but used skate gear seems very easy to find and not too pricey. As one of our local sales guys said: "Combis give you the worst of both worlds!"
This^^^ I haven't skied combis but I have heard that I won't want to
Combi boots have their advantages, and I generally prefer them.
Combi skis are OK in a pinch and I have had them, but real skate skis are so much more fun. Combi skis make better classic than skate skis. It is really not possible to make a ski that you can compress and work with kick wax also be stiff enough to skate on. Of course you can skate on anything but a dedicated skate ski is much better. _________________ Larry
----------------------------------------------------
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Came for the stoke, stayed for the popcorn.
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