In an about-face, the conservative talk radio host Rush Limbaugh said Saturday that he was sorry for lambasting as a “prostitute” a Georgetown University law student who had testified in favor of the Obama administration’s birth control policy.
How is Romney doing with his 13% income tax rate, multiple Cadillacs and million dollar homes? A true "man of the people"
The other Republican Presidential candidate, Rick Santorum wants States to ban the sale of all contraceptions, period.
Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 8530 Location: The Sun Mountain Town
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:34 am Post subject:
Pinnah - while I appreciate your interest with being able to interchange boots to any of your skis, most folks don't have multiple skis (certainly not in the same range). Therefore if they bought skis that are narrower than 70mm at the waist, they have NNNBC. If wider they have 75mm. If rotte can build an NTN binding to compete with the 75mm (ala hard wires and excursion) than it will likely sell. Fisher, Rotte et al don't want your convenience, they want your money! _________________ Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for.
-Marco Rubio
Joined: 12 Dec 2007 Posts: 1952 Location: VT near Jay Peak
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:52 am Post subject:
Speaking of
Quote:
"being able to interchange boots to any of your skis,"
,
There is a way to change a binding quickly from 75mm toe to NTN boot compatibility, using the Telebulldog system.
With the same base plate mounted on the ski, one could change the toe cage, to fit an NTN boot toe, or a 75 mm boot toe. Two hex tools is all that is required.
Since the NT Bulldog binding, gives me the same surfy 75mm feel, with an NTN boot, I am now skiing/touring exclusively on NTN boots, the Scarpa TX and the Prophet.
When I want a surfy, deep tele feel, on one of my backcountry skis, I am on the NTN compatible Spike bulldog, The binding skins/tours very well too, with a great ROM for skiining in free pivot mode. See first pic.
When I want uber-control on ice/ groomers at the resort, there is the NTN Freeride binding, mounted on my 184 Mantras.
I can use the same NTN boots, with both setups instantly.
Pinnah - while I appreciate your interest with being able to interchange boots to any of your skis, most folks don't have multiple skis (certainly not in the same range). Therefore if they bought skis that are narrower than 70mm at the waist, they have NNNBC. If wider they have 75mm. If rotte can build an NTN binding to compete with the 75mm (ala hard wires and excursion) than it will likely sell. Fisher, Rotte et al don't want your convenience, they want your money!
Hey Grant, I know that my interests are not the same as most tele skiers!! But I think the thing that seperately me is not the the fact that I have a quiver of closely related skis. Most tele skier I know do!!
But most tele skier do NOT have a "quiver" of dramatically different boots that they mix and match on the same ski. Most tele skiers I know have a primary pair of boots and maybe a secondary set that isn't far off.
Consider my old Monashees with their 90/70/80 profile. It's not stunning that Fischer is selling them with system bindings. I can't do it but I've seen Dana and DaveS ski these skis well in low cut Snowfield type boots. I recall that this combo was Lowell Skoog's preferred combo for glacier trips (back before dynafits). I love those skis with higher Extrmes especially for powder in the glades. But, for firmer snow conditions, those skis hold a great edges with my Liberos. Same ski works great riding lifts, but there I prefer my t1s.
One ski, four boots (well, for my abilities, three) and four different experiences.
With all my edged skis, I want the ability to exchange boots. _________________ Dave "Pinnah" Mann
========================
"It is impossible, or not easy, to do noble acts without the proper equipment."
Aristotle, <<Politics>>, 1323a-b, trans Jowett
In an about-face, the conservative talk radio host Rush Limbaugh said Saturday that he was sorry for lambasting as a “prostitute” a Georgetown University law student who had testified in favor of the Obama administration’s birth control policy.
How is Romney doing with his 13% income tax rate, multiple Cadillacs and million dollar homes? A true "man of the people"
The other Republican Presidential candidate, Rick Santorum wants States to ban the sale of all contraceptions, period.
Now back to the NTN thread..
Not all women just a certain one!
AND you are telling a lie about RS wanting to ban sales of drugs that make women sluts!
Like NTN killing Tm Obama care will fukc the public in the azz
(it is spelled contraceptives) I bet you went to a government skool.
Joined: 02 Mar 2007 Posts: 1922 Location: Nova Scotia
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:38 pm Post subject:
Pinnah wrote:
One ski, four boots (well, for my abilities, three) and four different experiences.
With all my edged skis, I want the ability to exchange boots.
Interesting. I am the opposite - one pair of boots multiple skis.
I find getting a pair of boots to fit well to be a real chore, so once I do I want the boot to have broad applicability.
I have one pair of NTN (Prophets) and one pair of XC (Alpina pursuit combi) boots. _________________ Larry
----------------------------------------------------
NTN is all about Dynamic Performance™
Came for the stoke, stayed for the popcorn.
Tele boot fitting - http://www.nstelemark.com/NSTelemark/Telemark_Boot_Fitting.html
Larry, what sort of skis do you regularly ski with those two boots. _________________ Dave "Pinnah" Mann
========================
"It is impossible, or not easy, to do noble acts without the proper equipment."
Aristotle, <<Politics>>, 1323a-b, trans Jowett
Joined: 02 Mar 2007 Posts: 1922 Location: Nova Scotia
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:32 pm Post subject:
Pinnah wrote:
Larry, what sort of skis do you regularly ski with those two boots.
Everything from 100 underfoot, rockered skis (hey this is the east 100 is wide) to 66 underfoot GS, slalom & mogul skis with the Prophets, and 44 mm skate/classic XC through 55 underfoot e99s with the Alpinas. The e99s could use more binding for sure, but they work OK (using NNN). So two binding standards, and two boots.
I don't do a whole lot of XCD and I use them more like snowshoes with glide rather than skis a lot of the time. The Alpinas have a cuff so they have some leverage. NNN is a fantastic track binding, and this is where I do most of my XC for sure. Manmade snow is what we have for the most part. _________________ Larry
----------------------------------------------------
NTN is all about Dynamic Performance™
Came for the stoke, stayed for the popcorn.
Tele boot fitting - http://www.nstelemark.com/NSTelemark/Telemark_Boot_Fitting.html
Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 8530 Location: The Sun Mountain Town
Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:12 am Post subject:
Pinnah wrote:
Grant wrote:
Pinnah - while I appreciate your interest with being able to interchange boots to any of your skis, most folks don't have multiple skis (certainly not in the same range). Therefore if they bought skis that are narrower than 70mm at the waist, they have NNNBC. If wider they have 75mm. If rotte can build an NTN binding to compete with the 75mm (ala hard wires and excursion) than it will likely sell. Fisher, Rotte et al don't want your convenience, they want your money!
Hey Grant, I know that my interests are not the same as most tele skiers!! But I think the thing that seperately me is not the the fact that I have a quiver of closely related skis. Most tele skier I know do!!
But most tele skier do NOT have a "quiver" of dramatically different boots that they mix and match on the same ski. Most tele skiers I know have a primary pair of boots and maybe a secondary set that isn't far off.
Consider my old Monashees with their 90/70/80 profile. It's not stunning that Fischer is selling them with system bindings. I can't do it but I've seen Dana and DaveS ski these skis well in low cut Snowfield type boots. I recall that this combo was Lowell Skoog's preferred combo for glacier trips (back before dynafits). I love those skis with higher Extrmes especially for powder in the glades. But, for firmer snow conditions, those skis hold a great edges with my Liberos. Same ski works great riding lifts, but there I prefer my t1s.
One ski, four boots (well, for my abilities, three) and four different experiences.
With all my edged skis, I want the ability to exchange boots.
I think you also want to telemark turn on your skis. I think folks buying 90/70/80 skis just want to get down hill and system bindings parallel turn better than 75mm pins. Those same folks are not likely bringing that same rig to go ride lifts. It's been years since the last time of saw skis of that shape on the lifts (when they weren't on my feet, at least). Remember, XCD is XC first!
I believe you realize that your needs are the anomaly. Rotte/Fischer/et al aren't going to create a business model on the far ends of the bell curve.
To wrap this up, if Rotte can pare down the NTN to a light enough plastic boot, ala Excursion), and a light enough binding (it will always weigh more than pins but it will have more features) a NTN XCD type of kit could work. _________________ Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for.
-Marco Rubio
Joined: 07 Aug 2006 Posts: 2309 Location: Minnesnowta
Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:09 pm Post subject:
Grant wrote:
a NTN XCD type of kit could work.
I concur. Now think about how much lateral stiffness you could get with skate skis using a duckbutt. _________________ “I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different.” Kurt Vonnegut
I think you also want to telemark turn on your skis. I think folks buying 90/70/80 skis just want to get down hill and system bindings parallel turn better than 75mm pins. Those same folks are not likely bringing that same rig to go ride lifts. It's been years since the last time of saw skis of that shape on the lifts (when they weren't on my feet, at least). Remember, XCD is XC first!
I still put light Excursion type boots in the XCD category. On the heavy end, yes, but to my mind, still in the XCD category. I also put 90/70/80 skis in the XCD category. Again, at the upper end but definitely in.
System bindings may parallel better than 75mm boots, but only if you're comparing similar style boots. My Liberos (just a skooch bigger than Excursions) parallel a lot better than any currently made system boot. It's not even close. Just too much lateral control out of the plastic. This is the problem that I see with Fischer's move to put system bindings on their ski in this class. Sort of like selling a MTB with rims that will only accept 1" wide slicks. Sort of limits the utility. (Note, I hate Fischer's S-Bound skis and think they turn like dog water, so it's not like system bindings are going to wreck an already broken ski experience any further for me. Too light and too highly cambered for my taste.)
Grant wrote:
I believe you realize that your needs are the anomaly. Rotte/Fischer/et al aren't going to create a business model on the far ends of the bell curve.
To wrap this up, if Rotte can pare down the NTN to a light enough plastic boot, ala Excursion), and a light enough binding (it will always weigh more than pins but it will have more features) a NTN XCD type of kit could work.
Yes, as an XCD skier, I'm an anomaly right out of the gate. I think most folks are more like Larry. They have tele rigs and they have XC gear, maybe even edged XC gear. And with that (perfectly reasonable) approach, it makes sense to have NNN-BC and NTN and to not worry about interchanging boots.
As to whether or not I'm an anomaly among the 14 XCD skiers left in the US or not, I just don't know.
What I do know is that speculation that NTN will displace 75mm in the XCD category sounds a bit like the speculation that NNN-BC would replace 75mm in that category back in the late 90s. We saw some early experimentation but then the market pushed back and 75mm XCD boots returned in the past 5 or 6 years.
I think you're onto something about Rotty not caring about me. More generally, I think they don't care about XCD, or rather, they have no interest in trying to develop and push XCD - and why should they? XCD is a tiny sub-niche of an already small skiing niche. XC and Tele, as markets, are much bigger.
And there is an extra economic incentive to be able to meet the needs of larger markets with a binding "standard" that you control and than generates licensing revenue for you. So I would expect Rotty to continue to focus on NNN-BC and NTN while offering just enough incremental improvements to maintain a proprietary hold.
What will be interesting to see will be the XCD market's reception to NTN should it ever start to make inroads. _________________ Dave "Pinnah" Mann
========================
"It is impossible, or not easy, to do noble acts without the proper equipment."
Aristotle, <<Politics>>, 1323a-b, trans Jowett
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