Centered on the exterior ski?

Rodbelan · Joined: 04 May 2011 Posts: 181 Location: Quebec

I took a class at The Massif in Quebec yesterday with a well known CANSI instructor. I actually learned from you guys, NATO videos, youtube and so on...

There is something I learned that challenged the way I was seeing telemarking: by centering on the exterior ski, there is much more weight on that ski than on the trailing one, at least for the first stages of the turn... If I refer to Dickie Hall lessons, he would suggest putting much more weight on the trailing (70%)...

Different techniques? What do you guys think?

Thanks. Rod

edgeworker · Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 3289

It's all about the rear ski. It's got to be driven and you can't drive it if you don't weight it.

Rodbelan · Joined: 04 May 2011 Posts: 181 Location: Quebec

edgeworker · Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 3289

I shoot for a 50/50 weight distribution though it's not an exact science. Get in the tele stance and pick up your front ski to see what 100% feels like on the rear ski. Work from there & mix it up.
If your driving the rear ski well your Glutes will tell you. Enjoy

J · Joined: 07 Dec 2004 Posts: 3023 Location: Cdv-PWS

If that drill/concept helps you control those sticks its a great idea.
I strive for overall "centeredness". Cool

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I read on these ttip pages of a guy that had his non-skiing Yogi analyze his form?!? The guy told him he needed to 'flow' and step into the turn smoothly. What hooey! I thought...till I tried it. Not a way to always whip the sticks around but I was surprised by what I learned doing a drill I at first did not believe in.

James · Joined: 24 Jan 2005 Posts: 6985 Location: Castle Rock, CO

If you are saying your center of mass is centered over the front ski I could see how this may be effective if you were doing high speed carving drills trying to get more weight stacked up on your front or outside ski. It could also be effective early in these types of turns as you move your core forward and down the hill in to the new turn. A lot of people start to sit back and open their ankle at the end of carved turns just when they should be moving diagonally forward.

The instructor also might have been having you do a specific drill for a specific reason. It is really hard to understand his intent with out seeing you ski and understanding what he was striving for.

For the most part I would say your center of mass should be centered in between your front and rear foot. I would also say on hard snow you might be more front foot dominant or centered closer to your front foot and on soft snow you would be more rear foot dominant or centered closer to you rear foot.

Rodbelan · Joined: 04 May 2011 Posts: 181 Location: Quebec

You are right... that technique seems more appropriate on hard pack than powdery soft snow... It is also taught by instructors linked to specific ski resort. It also feels like it is coming from alpine skiing...

QuiverQueen · Joined: 22 Apr 2005 Posts: 3254 Location: Boulder

I have a friend who has spent years adapting the Harb carving technique to his telemark skiing. He is dominantly front-foot-weighted and carves more than any other tele skier I know. He is strong and fast and skis everything: tight trees, icy irregular bumps, powder, boilerplate, you name it. Some call it "not telemark," but it is clearly working for him, and he's a beautiful skier.
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A humble student at Fryingpan University.

XXX_er · Joined: 07 Dec 2004 Posts: 7411 Location: Northwest B.C.

you may start at and shoot for 50-50 WD but when you consider all the forces in play is it really 50/50 WD or more like 70/30 ?

uberIM · Joined: 14 Feb 2006 Posts: 386

There is a difference between weight and pressure.
So one needs to weight the back ski but also pressure the uphill edge of the downhill ski. I am not sure but your Le Massif instructor was probably talking about this and being forward on the skis (ball of foot) and leaning downhill (the C curve with shoulders/belly button down the fall line).

Does this help?

Rodbelan · Joined: 04 May 2011 Posts: 181 Location: Quebec

skifreeK · Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 11426

In the modern era with the mondo gear, everyone I have worked with who is transitioning from solid alpine skills to tele can ski the lead (exterior) ski from turn #1.

The successful transition to tele is keyed on getting control of the rear (interior, raised heel, bent knee) ski with little piggy toe pressure. That pressure comes from driving your shin into the tongue of the boot and on down to the little toe. Shin.Tongue.Toe. When you effectively capture, pressure, and thereby control the inside edge of the interior/rear ski it is a simple matter to ease off of it a tad and balance out the weight distribution and pressure on the lead/exterior ski. This easing off takes place in less than a 1/2 second to a second....it's quick.

If you go the other route and settle in on the lead/exterior ski then go back to tend to the rear/interior ski's weight, pressure, and edging it's already too late if you are trying to ski anything beyond blue groomers. If you're in bumps, trees, or steeps you need control of the inside edge of the interior/rear ski immediately, so just go get it at the git-go and skip the drama of looking for it at a moment when you need very much too already be on it.

Once a skilled alpine skier learns the sensation of capturing and controlling the interior/rear ski edging, then they can adjust the mechanisms of the turn initiation to suit their style and preferences. But, until they experience effective rear ski edge control, the essence of a comfortable tele turn on challenging terrain will elude them.

bbense · Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:43 pm Post subject:

It's a dance, not a stance....

There's no magic weighting percentage that will work in all conditions, the trick is to learn to adapt to the snow. In deeper funky snow, weighting the back foot will give you more control, but it's impossible to truly carve in good snow conditions unless you get that weight on the front foot.

Part of learning is exaggerating the balance so you'll know what the sensation you're striving for is like. For skiers coming from an alpine background the early focus is often on engaging the back foot, rather than just dragging it along. For people without that background, it's often the opposite.

The skis won't bend and track unless they have some weight on them, the actual percentage doesn't matter. What matters is the feedback loop of perception and control. If you feel like both skis are engaged and arcing in the turn, you have the right weight balance.

- Booker C. Bense

hhtele · Joined: 09 Dec 2005 Posts: 811

I'm no expert, but here's what I think:

MAny people overweight their downhill foot.This works well on groomers, but an unweighted uphill ski in powder and crud will go where it wants, which may not be where the other ski is heading.

Cetifugal force and gravity tend to weight the down hill ski. When people emphasize weighting the uphill ski, it is to compensate for this, not to make the uphill foot dominant. It is hard to overweight the uphill foot. Focus on weighting the uphill foot, untill you are able to put too much weight on it. You will know, because your downhill ski will lose grip. Once you can do this, you can control your weighting in different ituations.

Regarding lessons/clinics. I have done a few, and found it the instructor does not always distinguish between drills and technique.
The way it should be done:

Instructor demos how the student is currently skiing.
Instructor demos the goal of how the student should be skiing.
Instructor demos a drill, and explains how that will improve technique.