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Baaahb
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 15750
Location: Ponderosa
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 Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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yes, jw, I know exactly where you are going with your analysis. I'm just waiting for you to step into it.
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jw
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 6318
Location: Nevada
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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I'm laughing because you did step in it and i never even rang the door. 
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| wow wrote: | | Complexity adds confusion whether you are in charge of an avalanche center or headed out for the first tour. |
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chemman
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 5830
Location: Flying over the Earth poisoning you with chemtrails
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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So Baaahab how are you to determine this universal morality you would like to impose on the population of the universe?
And how are you going to pursuade the believers of divine morality that your morality trumps theirs?
That may be the fly in the ointment B.
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Il n'y a que moi qui a toujours raison.
BF's French lady.
http://cleardarksky.com/c/LkDllnObCokey.html |
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lochsa
Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 2002
Location: aqui y alli
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Baaahb wrote: | | Well, that's what was being discussed, simple as it may have been. |
You seem ultra-fond of simplisms, as long as you can define them narrowly enough that you appear to be making a point.
You demonstrate all the sophistication of the hippies I used to see in Boulder, piling out of a van to occupy a strip of grass on Pearl Street and to hold up signs saying "World Peace Now.' |
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Baaahb
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 15750
Location: Ponderosa
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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| chemman wrote: | So Baaahab how are you to determine this universal morality you would like to impose on the population of the universe?
And how are you going to pursuade the believers of divine morality that your morality trumps theirs?
That may be the fly in the ointment B. |
That fly has been in the ointment for over 500 years and it is more like an elephant...but some progress has been made. Do we resign ourselves to eternal tribal warfare, or continue to work towards a more peaceful world?
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AKDOG
Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 1313
Location: Anchorage
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:24 am Post subject: |
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| aglandau wrote: | Do you know why "they hate us because of our freedom" gets more traction than "they hate us because we're assholes" ?
One appeals to a bloated sense of national narcism while the other is vexing to a sensitive ego. |
“They” hate us, once we are gone, “They” can start working on each other again.
The Quran burning is just the latest excuse for some pent up anger at the latest occupying force and having to live in a place that for 2000+ years has been kicking dirt in your face every time you lay down.
The shame is people have died over this on both sides and in end NATO will leave and life will go on, the Toyota pick-ups can start hauling people to the stadium again for some good old fashion stoning, heroin can again flow to the mainlines of western addicts' veins and the wind will continue to blow sand on the latest jerk trying to stay in power.
Time to leave |
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chemman
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 5830
Location: Flying over the Earth poisoning you with chemtrails
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:01 am Post subject: |
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| Baaahb wrote: | | chemman wrote: | So Baaahab how are you to determine this universal morality you would like to impose on the population of the universe?
And how are you going to pursuade the believers of divine morality that your morality trumps theirs?
That may be the fly in the ointment B. |
That fly has been in the ointment for over 500 years and it is more like an elephant...but some progress has been made. Do we resign ourselves to eternal tribal warfare, or continue to work towards a more peaceful world? |
So Baahb I would be very surprised if you had ever been to a country that is ruled and has a majority of Islamic people. If you had it it should been clear to you then the huge divide that exists between divine morality and what I define more accurately as Moral absolutism that you refer to.
It seems to me that you somehow believe we are spreading our good philosophy, freedom, capitalism and such through the third world over there. I would say that we have been met with extremely limited success. Saudi Arabia is one of our long standing close allies in the mid east yet they still maim and execute law breakers. Religious leaders abuse women for what we would consider trivial violation of divine morality laws.
We have been a significant presence in the Mideast for 20+ years, spent Trillions of American dollars and have extremely little social, economic progress or oil to show for our investments. The majority of those people do not want our freedoms, capitalism, or morality. They would prefer to be where they were decades ago.
Exactly where do you expect to go with your effort? Is it the American way you feel the need to spread freedom? Want all the people of the world to share your prosperity?
And like Iraq, what will you do when this experiment fails?
Here is a little kick in the balls for ya Baaahb:
| Quote: | LGBT rights
Main article: LGBT rights in Saudi Arabia
Saudi Arabia is one of the few countries in the world where homosexual acts are not only illegal but punishable by execution.[64] However, there have been no executions for homosexuality reported in Saudi Arabia since 2002 when three men from Abha were beheaded.[64] There have, however, reportedly been raids on "gay parties" and men have been arrested for "behaving like women".[64] The usual penalties inflicted have been limited to flogging and imprisonment.[url][/url] |
I once lived in Abha.
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Il n'y a que moi qui a toujours raison.
BF's French lady.
http://cleardarksky.com/c/LkDllnObCokey.html |
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Baaahb
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 15750
Location: Ponderosa
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:44 am Post subject: |
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| chemman wrote: |
So Baahb I would be very surprised if you had ever been to a country that is ruled and has a majority of Islamic people. If you had it it should been clear to you then the huge divide that exists between divine morality and what I define more accurately as Moral absolutism that you refer to.
It seems to me that you somehow believe we are spreading our good philosophy, freedom, capitalism and such through the third world over there. I would say that we have been met with extremely limited success. Saudi Arabia is one of our long standing close allies in the mid east yet they still maim and execute law breakers. Religious leaders abuse women for what we would consider trivial violation of divine morality laws.
We have been a significant presence in the Mideast for 20+ years, spent Trillions of American dollars and have extremely little social, economic progress or oil to show for our investments. The majority of those people do not want our freedoms, capitalism, or morality. They would prefer to be where they were decades ago. |
Much the same could be said about Rick Santorum, Newt Gingrich and the people they represent. Indeed, chemman, the strongest arguments for giving up hope in a universal morality appear to be here, at home in the US where, despite a long (but, admittedly, tortured) history of commitment to self-evident truths, people on the religious right cloak their intolerance and religious fervor in the very name of our founding fathers.
But I'm still voting for Obama, and have hope for the future.
You seem determined to debate the wisdom of the US presence in Afghanistan. I don't have a strong position on that, because I know it is very complicated. But I certainly agree with you that force and American exceptionalism and ringing the bells of American prosperity and the American way of life are NOT the ways to educate, or to win hearts and minds of the Afghanis....
though this is not all that clear either...look at the history of our relations with the people of Japan, Vietnam and China. Go figure.
I have travelled but not lived abroad. However, that doesn't give one any credibility. There are plenty of folks who have lived extensively abroad and have differences wildly more conservative and pro-US than either you or I. What you do with your knowledge and experience is far more important than how diverse those experiences have been.
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Jim
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 1686
Location: North Ogden, Ut or upstate NY
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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Gotta give Obama credit. His apology reallly worked to calm the situation. Only 2 more Americans killed today.
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You know it's a good day when you wake up in the morning. |
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hutguy
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 7110
Location: Breckenridge CO
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Jim wrote: | | Gotta give Obama credit. His apology reallly worked to calm the situation. Only 2 more Americans killed today. |
What would a good response of the situation from a right thinking conservative be?
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Creeds and doctrines are like a raft to get you to the other shore and then to relinquish. Neither cling to the raft or reject it when drowning. Even better, become a strong swimmer.
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Baaahb
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 15750
Location: Ponderosa
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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Jim
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 1686
Location: North Ogden, Ut or upstate NY
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| Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:48 am Post subject: |
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| hutguy wrote: | | Jim wrote: | | Gotta give Obama credit. His apology reallly worked to calm the situation. Only 2 more Americans killed today. |
What would a good response of the situation from a right thinking conservative be? |
Try "shit happens."
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skookumchuck
Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 9487
Location: Blue Canadian Rockies
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| Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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| hutguy wrote: | | Jim wrote: | | Gotta give Obama credit. His apology reallly worked to calm the situation. Only 2 more Americans killed today. |
What would a good response of the situation from a right thinking conservative be? |
Bring it on! |
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hutguy
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 7110
Location: Breckenridge CO
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| Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Jim wrote: | | hutguy wrote: | | Jim wrote: | | Gotta give Obama credit. His apology reallly worked to calm the situation. Only 2 more Americans killed today. |
What would a good response of the situation from a right thinking conservative be? |
Try "shit happens." |
Well that's profound statesmanship in a caveman like way.
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Creeds and doctrines are like a raft to get you to the other shore and then to relinquish. Neither cling to the raft or reject it when drowning. Even better, become a strong swimmer.
Shakyamuni Buddha. The diamond sutra |
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AKDOG
Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 1313
Location: Anchorage
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| Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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| hutguy wrote: | | Jim wrote: | | Gotta give Obama credit. His apology reallly worked to calm the situation. Only 2 more Americans killed today. |
What would a good response of the situation from a right thinking conservative be? |
Get the f out, bring the kids home. First thing to ask yourself, would you want your kids over there?
Ask Ron Paul, he is about as right thinking as one can be, to the point of mimicking a Limburg type isolationist. Not a Ron Paul supporter myself, but have to agree when he warned of the dangers of getting into a ” vague and prolonged war”. |
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