Joined: 21 Sep 2007 Posts: 17707 Location: EL/R -6.12, SL/A -8.15 in NW VT and slightly south of the Poutine Curtain
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:28 pm Post subject:
voile3p wrote:
mark wrote:
OK... another side country ski set up. So XCD will also evolve just like teley. Maybe Rossi will do some scales on the S7's and call them something like "not as good up or down, but another ski for your rack 7's next year they'll have 3 sheets of metal to amp the burl and stokage!" There. That about takes care of all the space on the top sheet.
What you got against fat ..things? It's a new standard: Xcd Fat..
But seriously, Excursions and Xterrains can take u all 'round the mountain in some pretty varied conditions..Just don't let the drag on low angles get too to-you ..
They can. And so can other things. _________________
. People want it. Don't begrudge them that. And yes, it is funny to think of heavy light tele skis.
Bud, I'm not begrudging anyone anything. I fondled the Rossi's at the store down the block and think if I were bush wacking where I grew up in MI, they'd be pretty darn groovy. Matter of fact, I'm thinking next year that the telemark "upgrade" will be back to XCD gear. Simplify, lighten, do more with much much less. Laps on 500' of vert? Perfect! Just not with Axl's and T2's :)
Joined: 08 Dec 2004 Posts: 7703 Location: Berkeley, CA /Tahoe
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:51 pm Post subject:
mark wrote:
rsire, just goofing on the notion that as soon new XCD gear starts making the rounds, we're already dissatisfied with it's lack of power and are planning on how best to pump and pimp it up n out of proportion when there's already a plethora of gear that's all full of power and burliness and and and.... stuff. XCD isn't supposed to be heavy teley. Just thought the whole thing was pretty funny.
IMHO, these ( Karhu Guide, Rossi 125, Voile Vector BC, Alpina X-terrain) aren't XCD skis at all. What they are is the most versatile "earn your turns" skis around ( at least in climates where kick waxing doesn't work well ).
Every "backcountry" ski should come in a waxless version, it's just such a huge win in maritime climates. Putting 3pins and floppy boots on these skis gives you the worst of both worlds, a fat slow ski you can't control in anything but perfect powder.
I'm always impressed at how poorly ski company marketing is done in this area. You can ski big peaks with these skis and that's how they should be marketed. Not as tools for people without the skills to turn skinny skis, because if you put floppy boots and pins on them, you still can't turn them.
I'd think a T4 would be plenty for non-area skiing. The Rossi's aren't big and burly by any means. But it really doesn't matter. Getting 2 telemark skiers to agree on anything is like having a super committee solve a budget. And really?... You don't think you could turn these with pins and pins n cables? If not, why doesn't K2 just reissue the Piste Stinx with scales and call it good? But looking at the bright side, we can re-live a decade of telemark gear debate. Boot rocker redux anyone?
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 Posts: 17707 Location: EL/R -6.12, SL/A -8.15 in NW VT and slightly south of the Poutine Curtain
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:33 pm Post subject:
mark wrote:
rsireland3 wrote:
. People want it. Don't begrudge them that. And yes, it is funny to think of heavy light tele skis.
Bud, I'm not begrudging anyone anything. I fondled the Rossi's at the store down the block and think if I were bush wacking where I grew up in MI, they'd be pretty darn groovy. Matter of fact, I'm thinking next year that the telemark "upgrade" will be back to XCD gear. Simplify, lighten, do more with much much less. Laps on 500' of vert? Perfect! Just not with Axl's and T2's
Actually, I think AXLs and T2's would be a great match with such a ski for lapping short steeps. I can do it on my Excursions and Chugachs or I can go steeper with beefier gear. If cost wasn't an object, I'd have a waxless ski mounted with an AT binding in my quiver just for yo-yo earn your own fun. _________________
Joined: 08 Dec 2004 Posts: 7703 Location: Berkeley, CA /Tahoe
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:08 pm Post subject:
mark wrote:
I'd think a T4 would be plenty for non-area skiing. The Rossi's aren't big and burly by any means. But it really doesn't matter. Getting 2 telemark skiers to agree on anything is like having a super committee solve a budget. And really?... You don't think you could turn these with pins and pins n cables?
Not in anything but good conditions on moderate slopes and I have skinnier more fun skis for that kind of skiing. Putting floppy boots/bindings on these skis is like putting slicks on your MTB, yeah it works, but you have a bike that doesn't do anything well.
Do you use a T4 for all your backcountry skiing? If so, you could use t4's with these skis. If you look at these skis and ignore waxless part, you wouldn't expect to use pins and floppy boots to ski them well in steep difficult terrain/conditions.
Quote:
If not, why doesn't K2 just reissue the Piste Stinx with scales and call it good? But looking at the bright side, we can re-live a decade of telemark gear debate. Boot rocker redux anyone?
Madhus Annum (nee Karhu Guide) is more or less that. I think you are entirely missing the point of these skis. They aren't "beefy" XCD skis, but regular skis with some good ideas taken from the XCD world. Just like taking sidecut from snowboarders improved "regular" skis, taking the waxless base from XCD will improve "regular" skis.
If you're looking for a lightweight "earn your turns" ski that will work in many conditions, having a waxless version as a choice makes a lot of sense in at least Sierra snow conditions.
why doesn't K2 just reissue the Piste Stinx with scales and call it good? But looking at the bright side, we can re-live a decade of telemark gear debate. Boot rocker redux anyone?
Funny you should mention that, because when the Fischer Boundless came out I was immediately on it. It was the Piste Stinx dimensions what everyone was using, only with scales for the flatter sections. The best of both worlds.
In our area there were two main bc tele options, one involved some miles in on XC trails, the other pretty much right up from where you parked. For the former, people would use Karhu Lookouts, for the latter their Piste Stinx.
Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 2273 Location: Washoe Valley, Nevada
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:16 pm Post subject:
I think Booker pretty much nailed it. These new generation waxless would be in the burly catagory just a few years ago and arn't a good match for anything less than three buckle boots and upper level cable bindings. So, if you are in this catagory forget K & G, skating or zooming across the flats. To get full benefit you would most certainly need skins as they wouldn't climb the terrain they are capable of skiing using the scales only. IMO _________________ Just Say No To Groomed Snow
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 Posts: 17707 Location: EL/R -6.12, SL/A -8.15 in NW VT and slightly south of the Poutine Curtain
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:26 pm Post subject:
Quadzilla wrote:
I think Booker pretty much nailed it. These new generation waxless would be in the burly catagory just a few years ago and arn't a good match for anything less than three buckle boots and upper level cable bindings. So, if you are in this catagory forget K & G, skating or zooming across the flats. To get full benefit you would most certainly need skins as they wouldn't climb the terrain they are capable of skiing using the scales only. IMO
Certainly. However, for some shots of 500' +/- vert that I have in mind, one can take a slightly less direct route with more switchbacks and the waxless alone would do just fine without turning it into a kickless and glideless suffer fest. And yes, for other stuff, you'd want skins too. I get that. _________________
I think Booker pretty much nailed it. These new generation waxless would be in the burly catagory just a few years ago and arn't a good match for anything less than three buckle boots and upper level cable bindings. So, if you are in this catagory forget K & G, skating or zooming across the flats. To get full benefit you would most certainly need skins as they wouldn't climb the terrain they are capable of skiing using the scales only. IMO
My thoughts as well... So we're just reinventing big skis?
why doesn't K2 just reissue the Piste Stinx with scales and call it good? But looking at the bright side, we can re-live a decade of telemark gear debate. Boot rocker redux anyone?
Funny you should mention that, because when the Fischer Boundless came out I was immediately on it. It was the Piste Stinx dimensions what everyone was using, only with scales for the flatter sections. The best of both worlds.
In our area there were two main bc tele options, one involved some miles in on XC trails, the other pretty much right up from where you parked. For the former, people would use Karhu Lookouts, for the latter their Piste Stinx.
At any rate, the Boundless was my first FAT ski.
Exactly! Seems this catagory of ski has already been said and done. The Piste Off's and Stinx were versatile skis. The two buckle T2 and three buckle T1 (very soft compared the bumble bee onward) could easily drive either in most conditions. With a Superloop, they toured simply and well. Bust out the old molds, add scales and we're back to the future.
Joined: 05 Nov 2005 Posts: 951 Location: between fens and potholes
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:06 pm Post subject:
mark wrote:
Doug G wrote:
mark wrote:
why doesn't K2 just reissue the Piste Stinx with scales and call it good? But looking at the bright side, we can re-live a decade of telemark gear debate. Boot rocker redux anyone?
Funny you should mention that, because when the Fischer Boundless came out I was immediately on it. It was the Piste Stinx dimensions what everyone was using, only with scales for the flatter sections. The best of both worlds.
In our area there were two main bc tele options, one involved some miles in on XC trails, the other pretty much right up from where you parked. For the former, people would use Karhu Lookouts, for the latter their Piste Stinx.
At any rate, the Boundless was my first FAT ski.
Exactly! Seems this catagory of ski has already been said and done. The Piste Off's and Stinx were versatile skis. The two buckle T2 and three buckle T1 (very soft compared the bumble bee onward) could easily drive either in most conditions. With a Superloop, they toured simply and well. Bust out the old molds, add scales and we're back to the future.
Having skied both the Piste Stinx and the Fischer Boundless I have to disagree. Those two skis are very different. The Boundless has much more camber, is stiffer, lighter, and much more efficient for covering low terrain to get to steeper goods. That's where these types of skis excel IMO. _________________ "Throw you in the pigpen, and you come out vice president of the hogs." Burt Lancaster
Joined: 07 Dec 2004 Posts: 105 Location: neon babylon
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:20 pm Post subject:
I agree with the comments recommending T2's for the wider waxless skis - Annum (Guide) and bigger.
I have 195 Anuums w/ 3-pins and have skied them w/ both the Excursion and T2. I am selling the Excursions. The Excursions have been my go to touring boot w/ waxless skis in the past but this new bigger breed is different + lots more fun in a wider range of conditions.
I am slowly coming around on bindings too. I love the simplicity and price of 3-Pins but the Switchback is probably the ideal binding for these skis.
Can't wait to try the BC125 and Vector. _________________ want big air? pull my finger
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:44 pm Post subject: BC 125
I haven't used them yet, but just picked up a pair of the 165 stiff flex, I guess these were the intial size and flex until they decided to make multiple lengths.
They were dirt cheap $199...I hope they'll work well for me, I'm 6'2" and 200 lbs...anyone know if I made a wise purchase or should I have gone with the 185cm?
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