Joined: 26 Apr 2006 Posts: 24 Location: East Jindabyne, NSW, Oz
Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:23 pm Post subject:
Sydney is an unusual city. While it is an international city it is surrounded by National Parks, has several parks within the city and of course the harbour and the beaches. I'm yet to find a city more congenial to outdoor activities than Sydney.
As an Australian that moved to Switzerland some time ago, I would start with a quote from a (great) former Prime Minister
"Australia's a great place, it's just at the arse end of the planet".
Offence to neighbours aside - that pretty much sums it up - its friendly (especially if you are white (my in laws are brown)) but a long way away from anywhere else and reflexively parochial as a result.
In defence of the distance, at least the US is less of a slog than Europe (24 hours flying). And the sense of space/isolation is part of the defining attributes of the place - Aust is basically the same size as the US, but with less than 10% of the population. Make sure you travel around and don't, as most Australians, just stay in the big cities.
Watch "Cactus" for an Aussie style "Deliverance"/taste of the "outback".
Psych yourself up for disappointment on a work visa. Aust is still pretty restrictive on work visas, especially if you are over 25.
I spent 6 weeks climbing down there a few years ago - absolutely fantastic. Trad, sport / a mix whatever you want. I particularly enjoyed the blue mountains.
Living/working abroad is a great thing to do - seems like a big deal until you are there. I moved to the US for 4 years and had a blast. It was never going to become home for me, but I got a huge amount out of the experience (not least learning to ski!).
I'm thinking it is going to work out. The visa thing is the catch. We are working with the company my wife is contracted with. Hopefully they will have some good leads for us.
Now about taking my dog..... I paranoid he is going to get eaten by a croc he won't stay out of the water. Probably should work on that now.... _________________ "Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anais Nin
Yeah, we are looking into ways to work through it. For example, if we are in Hawaii for a month, it is much easier to get him in. So we may take a 4 week trip to Hawaii just before relocating. Nevertheless, it will be tricky. _________________ "Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anais Nin
Yeah, we are looking into ways to work through it. For example, if we are in Hawaii for a month, it is much easier to get him in. So we may take a 4 week trip to Hawaii just before relocating. Nevertheless, it will be tricky.
Yeah, the 4-week layover in Hawaii sounds terrible.
(Actually it does sounds terribly expensive, but hey, I had to laugh)
Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:33 am Post subject: Australia
Brisbane has some top roping at a city crag and good crack climbing at Frog Buttress about 2.5 hours drive south from the CBD. There is no white water to speak of but some great sea kayaking to the south and north. You will need to fly to do any skiing and once there is a requirement to board a plane to go skiing in Australia I would fly to NZ and hit the Canterbury Club Fields. I have posted comments on Club Field skiing previously on TT. Search for Craigieburn. The skiing is better and the whole package would be cheaper than skiing in Australia i.e. air fares accommodation, lifts etc.
Brisbane is a smaller city and has a nice feel to it. People often refer to is a big country town. It lacks the quantity and quality of broader cultural activities when compared to Melbourne which is more than twice the size. Have a look at real estate prices on www.realestate.com.au.
It is feasible to do ski day trips from Melbourne to Mt Buller. Falls Creek and Mt Hotham are really weekend trips. There is some nice meadow skipping on the Bogong High Plains and this is shown in Zietwhites clip although there is often more snow than depicted. There is better back country skiing on Mt Feathertop and Mt Bogong. If you Google you will get photos. There is 10 lifetimes of climbing within 4 hours drive of Melbourne, alpine granite slabs and crack at Mt Buffalo and quartzitic sandstone in the Grampians and Mt Arapiles plus numerous smaller crags close to Melbourne. There is good seasonal white water within 4 hours. Sea kayaking in Port Phillip Bay can be very boring but there is great sea kayaking around the coast.
If you want to ski for a week fly to NZ club fields.
Melbourne is the most centralised city in Australia with almost all cultural and sporting activities conducted in the city centre. There are a huge range of bars and restaurants. This centralisation makes the city seem much larger than 4 million. Examples are a tennis grand slam, F1 street circuit, world class horse racing carnival games of various codes of football every weekend. There are always quality show and plays running in the various theaters close to the CBD.It is easy to travel with good public transport and roads. Melbourne is the easiest city in Australia to bike commute. The city is relatively homogeneous with a spread of good suburbs around the city.
In a choice between Melbourne and Brisbane, go for Melbourne. If Sydney was in the mix I would probably go for Sydney if my income was high enough to live in a good area. If this was not the case, I would choose Melbourne.
With the dog, see a vet now and discuss the rabies protocols. Our dog travelled with us to Germany and India, both countries with rabies. Provided you follow the protocol for drawing and testing blood three month before you leave, the quarantine period in Australia is 3 months. If you don't do this, the quarantine is 6 months.
Unemployment is relatively low in Australia at a tad over 5%. Working visas are hard to get though. There are consultants who assist in visa applications for the spouses of sponsored employees and they often mean the difference between getting a working visa and not getting a working visa. They can be expensive so try to negotiate the cost into your wife's package.
I hope this helps and I am happy to provide any other perspectives if you wish.
Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:55 pm Post subject: Re: Australia
southerntele wrote:
Brisbane has some top roping at a city crag and good crack climbing at Frog Buttress about 2.5 hours drive south from the CBD. There is no white water to speak of but some great sea kayaking to the south and north. You will need to fly to do any skiing and once there is a requirement to board a plane to go skiing in Australia I would fly to NZ and hit the Canterbury Club Fields. I have posted comments on Club Field skiing previously on TT. Search for Craigieburn. The skiing is better and the whole package would be cheaper than skiing in Australia i.e. air fares accommodation, lifts etc.
Brisbane is a smaller city and has a nice feel to it. People often refer to is a big country town. It lacks the quantity and quality of broader cultural activities when compared to Melbourne which is more than twice the size. Have a look at real estate prices on www.realestate.com.au.
It is feasible to do ski day trips from Melbourne to Mt Buller. Falls Creek and Mt Hotham are really weekend trips. There is some nice meadow skipping on the Bogong High Plains and this is shown in Zietwhites clip although there is often more snow than depicted. There is better back country skiing on Mt Feathertop and Mt Bogong. If you Google you will get photos. There is 10 lifetimes of climbing within 4 hours drive of Melbourne, alpine granite slabs and crack at Mt Buffalo and quartzitic sandstone in the Grampians and Mt Arapiles plus numerous smaller crags close to Melbourne. There is good seasonal white water within 4 hours. Sea kayaking in Port Phillip Bay can be very boring but there is great sea kayaking around the coast.
If you want to ski for a week fly to NZ club fields.
Melbourne is the most centralised city in Australia with almost all cultural and sporting activities conducted in the city centre. There are a huge range of bars and restaurants. This centralisation makes the city seem much larger than 4 million. Examples are a tennis grand slam, F1 street circuit, world class horse racing carnival games of various codes of football every weekend. There are always quality show and plays running in the various theaters close to the CBD.It is easy to travel with good public transport and roads. Melbourne is the easiest city in Australia to bike commute. The city is relatively homogeneous with a spread of good suburbs around the city.
In a choice between Melbourne and Brisbane, go for Melbourne. If Sydney was in the mix I would probably go for Sydney if my income was high enough to live in a good area. If this was not the case, I would choose Melbourne.
With the dog, see a vet now and discuss the rabies protocols. Our dog travelled with us to Germany and India, both countries with rabies. Provided you follow the protocol for drawing and testing blood three month before you leave, the quarantine period in Australia is 3 months. If you don't do this, the quarantine is 6 months.
Unemployment is relatively low in Australia at a tad over 5%. Working visas are hard to get though. There are consultants who assist in visa applications for the spouses of sponsored employees and they often mean the difference between getting a working visa and not getting a working visa. They can be expensive so try to negotiate the cost into your wife's package.
I hope this helps and I am happy to provide any other perspectives if you wish.
Thanks for all of the information. We pretty much have our pick of where to live, which is nice. The visa issues and the dog issue appear to the be the most problematic. We are currently looking at Queensland, the Gold Coast and Brisbane. Although your Melbourne sales pitch has me rethinking things.
I'm from Salt Lake and have never really lived in a "big" city so I'm not sure about moving to Sydney or Melbourne. However, this is a new experience.... so I might as well go big. _________________ "Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anais Nin
Joined: 14 Dec 2004 Posts: 81 Location: Above the belay, farting
Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:21 pm Post subject:
I moved from BC to Sydney for a year or two to work. Australia is a great place, but I would not recommend you go there planning to do the same things you do in Utah. For one, why bother - just stay in Uta?! And second, the stuff you do in Utah (skiing!) mostly sucks in Australia by comparison. So, embrace what the place has to offer...and that is the OCEAN. Second best: a much different culture (and more interesting, imho) than SLC.
Move to be close to the ocean and then spend every day you are there surfing (or sailing, or whatever). If you can live somewhere with surf and interesting culture, that's a bonus.
Brisbane is a pretty boring town compared to Sydney or Melbourne. But much better local surfing (altho more sharkey). Melbourne is by far and away the most interesting city, but the closest surfing is a bit of a drive, and isn't the most friendly (colder water, mostly).
Sydney has both - neat city, and surfing in the city. The key to Sydney is to live in a beach community. I grew fond of the northern beaches - Manley to Dee Why. I think you will find this area has a feel similar to SLC - urban, but not overwhelming. It is a touch separate from the city centre (a 20 minute ferry ride, which is an awesome morning commute!). And you can walk to the break in your bare feet every morning. Ahhh. Sydney is also close to the Blueys for climbing (altho I wasn't blown away by the quality; Melbourne's better for local climbing options). The skiing is a long drive (much closer to Melbourne) but I wouldn't even bother bringing skis unless you plan to go to NZ. The skiing in Australia is going to be a huge let-down compared to Utah pow and mtns (no offence, Australia...that is pretty tough competition tho).
So, my vote: go, and live in Sydney, and the northern beaches specifically. Under no circumstances live in Adelaide or Canberra. Don't even bother visiting.
Joined: 14 Dec 2004 Posts: 81 Location: Above the belay, farting
Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:26 pm Post subject:
ghostofcarl wrote:
You keep calling Sydney and Melbourne "big cities". They aren't
I agree. Their populations make them look big - Sydney is north of 4M I think - but they way they have developed makes them feel much more human-scaled. I find SLC overwhelming - the sprawl, and highways and big malls. Very impersonal. All but the central business district of downtown Sydney feels like a community.
You keep calling Sydney and Melbourne "big cities". They aren't
They are compared to Salt Lake. The Wasatch Front (Ogden to Provo) has like 1.4 Million people. So Melbourne with 4 million is roughly 4 times the size. _________________ "Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anais Nin
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he won't stay out of the water. Probably should work on that now....
