I personally don't think that doc henry's comment was directed at me (or Julian), and in any case no offense taken whatsoever; I actually somewhat agree with his comment.
Gary thanks for the explanation.
seki I've been thinking about this too, the 'don't descend it if you haven't climbed it' rule, which makes a whole lotta sense. Julian seems to refer to this as well:
Julian wrote:
We overlooked the obvious: were backcountry skiers; if there had been a feasible chute on the face, we would have spotted it from below and probably fantasized about skiing it. If we couldnt remember what wed seen from below, then there was probably nothing to be skied (by us, anyway). Duh.
Like Greydon, I used to consider this as much to check for slide-for-life conditions as anything, especially when spring chuting. However, this is a rule that I break more than I ought, especially when doing tours that are not focused on a couloir objective.
keither I'll be bugging you again pretty soon about those helicoils.
Eric O I think that it's somehow fitting that the Summits final resting place is on the Summit. Thanks for getting the word out.
ed I can't be certain, but I'm glad it was on. It's a Giro Semi (essentially a 9.nine). After checking it closely, there doesn't seem to be an impact dent or anything, and the only 'damage' is my avatar sticker fell off. The concussion may well have been due to deceleration injury or coup-contracoup type brain sloshing that the helmet doesn't really protect all that well against, as Clyde will correctly remind you. Nonetheless, I'm glad I've not experienced anything more than the temporary amnesia surrounding the event, and will continue to wear a helmet FWIW.
Whiteout
High forecast--high or extreme forecast posted for the region. No regional forecast; I would incorrectly have guessed it to be low rising to moderate when it was probably closer to moderate rising to considerable or high.
Recent avalanches--In the immediate area, within the past 48 hrs. Other than sloughs, none seen or known about in the immediate area at the time we were touring, but with reports now coming in from Old Man, Wahoo, Solstice, Black Mountain, Dunderberg, etc. certainly this would be the case.
Instability signs -- Collapsing, cracking, hollow sounds or low stability test scores. Here's where I'm uncertain whether spring collapsing (while unnerving) is entirely equivalent to winter collapsing (which is, at least to me, a bit more terrifying). But yes, this was the case.
Recent loading--Loading by snowfall>15 cm or wind in the last 48 hrs. None.
Thaw instability--Above-freezing air temperatures or rain at the time of the incident. Again, does this apply to spring conditions when air temps are usually higher? The lack of refreeze the previous nights definitely was a concern.
Obvious path--A distinct start zone, track or runout zone, or a known avalanche path. Yes.
Terrain trap--Terrain features that increase the severity of the slide's effects. IMO both 6 and 7 are essentially givens when skiing couloirs.
Something I'd like to investigate further, going back to Lucy's comment, is the whole question of pit testing in the spring what kinds of changes do people make in both methodology and interpretation?
SW/Dajarr Surviving poor judgment by sheer luck isn't the same as courage - but if you're referring to Julian, the description is apt.
BICblister thanks for the pics! Great to see the new Dana Summit marker, it indeed is a classic shot. I'm wondering too what happened to the binding, can't remember if it was on or off the ski when I last saw it.
steeleman I kinda think that the alien fits better with the Tele Surf, and the Summit belongs, well, on the summit.
I personally don't think that doc henry's comment was directed at me (or Julian), and in any case no offense taken whatsoever; I actually somewhat agree with his comment.
Of course it wasn't. Eric O missed the gist of doc's post. His barbed comment was directed at the community as a whole.
Joined: 08 Dec 2004 Posts: 1223 Location: North Vancouver
Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 9:35 pm Post subject:
Thanks for the writeups julian and Tri. Some comments:
1. This incident and another one where a friend mind broke her back in an avvy makes me reconsider the decision to not bother bringing a helmet with me into the bc.
2. I usually like to keep the majority of gear with me in my pack just for tidiness. Getting gear ripped off in an avvy is another good reason to do so I guess.
3. I really like julian's hard and fast rule about turnaround times and south slopes skiing. I don't mind saying I had a sharp intake of breath and "oh no" when I realized what time you guys started skiing! Having said that, I don't know that area or slope at all.
4. Like a lot of other people I really really appreciate the reality - check.
Another reason to climb a chute is to assess any hazards, or to pick "a line within the line". Just as racers inspect a course to choose the fastest line, ascending a chute serves the purpose of looking for the safest, hopefully most fluid, line of descent.
Tri-U, given what you and Julian experienced a couple of weeks ago, your ski perched upon Mt. Dana is just plain awesome! Here's to a quick recovery. Cheers!
Got a chance to see and hike with Launce/Tri-U this weekend. Lest any one question his routefinding after reading this thread, he managed to pilot his truck through a maze of tract mansions to the Lone Peak trailhead back home in Utah
There are so many fine and heartfelt posts on this thread.
Launce, I just got a e-mail that my brother in law found your crampons, shovel handle & ski poles yesterday. I am meeting him in Idaho in early August, and I'll get them for you then.
WOO HOO!!! Thanks Bri, and many thanks to your brother-in-law. I was thinking of driving all the way across Nevada to hike back up there and search around, but couldn't find the time.
Joined: 08 Dec 2004 Posts: 888 Location: The Dog Barn
Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:29 pm Post subject:
First time I caught this. Criminy! Glad Doc Ungulate is relatively OK.
A question and a comment: Tri, it was mentioned that you experienced fatigue. Did you experience any nausea? I ask because thats what I usually get in far less trying circumstances. My body purges from both ends for whatever reason. The comment is that although I've never met Tri, it is obvious from photo's I've seen of him that the Ungulate is in exceptional shape and that although luck played a role, I would submit that his musculature played a very large role in the minimization of injury. This does not seem to be mentioned but being in good shape tends to ward off injury.
Picked up my gear from Norse yesterday, and aside from the lost K2 Summits and my sunglasses, I'm back where I started, hopefully a little wiser.
It's a small world, since the person who found my gear not only knows Eric O, (who used to work with him and tipped him off to the situation), but is a brother-in-law of Norse, a good friend (skiing and otherwise) here in SLC. The good vibes from the ttips board not only helped me psychically, but the nature of its widespread reach worked to allow my stuff to return to me.
And yep Norse, the crampons are pretty heavy good for ice climbing up to WI7 (not that I do all that) and kinda overkill. I need to get some of them lightweight Camps.
Healing is more-or-less complete, and not a day goes by when I thank my lucky stars for having not only beaten the odds by escaping relatively unscathed. That, and having a top-notch touring partner to help me out, and the additional unexpected good fortune of getting almost all my stuff back.
A few more belated responses:
LeeL -
Quote:
1. This incident and another one where a friend mind broke her back in an avvy makes me reconsider the decision to not bother bringing a helmet with me into the bc.
The helmet debate rages on, as ever, but this medical article (based out of our local Univ ER) and Ava Blanche's thread from last December seem to indicate that it's not an entirely bad idea. Also, last spring, a skier at Virginia Lakes was hit by rockfall on the way up he attributes his survival, in part, to wearing a helmet.
Quote:
2. I usually like to keep the majority of gear with me in my pack just for tidiness. Getting gear ripped off in an avvy is another good reason to do so I guess.
Good thought; everything strapped to the outside of my pack was stripped off.
DJM - Thanks and get back to SLC soon.
Thanks Deb and telemikey.
Skijorer I did feel nauseated on the way out, but never actually barfed some of it may well have been due to the concussion. As for minimization of injury - thanks, but I think that, without question, luck played the absolute paramount role.
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I think that it's somehow fitting that the Summits final resting place is on the Summit. Thanks for getting the word out.
